Judging Deep Cycleability by weight per capacity ratio

One of the hallmarks of a good battery is that they are FORGIVING of mistreatment.

Up to a point. Limited but of course but very significant.

An industrial battery can recover repeatedly from misuse that would put a lesser battery in the recycle bin many times over. A good, hard equalization may remove 7-10 microns of surface from a positive plate while the same would destroy a more porous plate.

Nothing is free. Dense plates offer less performance. Denser, harder plates make the battery significantly more expensive to manufacture. And manufacturing mishaps make production line faults expensive. Manufacturing top quality batteries is a great financial gamble. It is a niche market - quirky and always subject to oppressive federal rules and regulations. Not saying the rules are wrong, but it really impacts the final cost.

"Cheapest At Any Price" customers, cloud the issue. Regardless of any other factor, the result of calculating cost per kWh service rendered over the lifespan of the product is the benchmark. The only benchmark. Anything other calculation is hocus-pocus.

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
But wanna be runners up become harder and harder to charge as time passes. They sulfate faster than a top of the line GC and in reality make a mockery of the supposed "savings" in the retail price.

None of the weaknesses of a bargain battery will show up under shallow occasional use. It's when batteries are cycled deeply and often that pretenders fall flat on their face. Positively false economic savings.

David, very well stated ..... I think ..... as what you say sure makes sense in light of how many other products around us are gradually being cheapened so as to not attract our attention, and hence not impact our continuing to hand over more and more cash for less and less product.

GC batteries are remarkable when properly constructed. Their electrolyte volume to active plate surface area side steps many potential issues. A GC with industrial .145" plates and paste would be awesome but that would come at a cost of high price and substantially lower capacity per footprint area.

However -

The manufacture of consistantly dependable GC batteries is an artform. The typical RVer does not even begin to approach the demands as needed on a golf course. But wanna be runners up become harder and harder to charge as time passes. They sulfate faster than a top of the line GC and in reality make a mockery of the supposed "savings" in the retail price.

None of the weaknesses of a bargain battery will show up under shallow occasional use. It's when batteries are cycled deeply and often that pretenders fall flat on their face. Positively false economic savings.

It will be interesting to find out how a new T-1275 responds to my solar's 198 watts and adjustable controller, as this is the main recharging source. My Meanwell and Alternator are the other 2, with the well wired alternator coming close to the 'instant absorption voltage' if RPM's are adequate.

Tickling the lid of pandora's box, these brief 15.5v blasts mid absorption are just for more aggressive bubbling, acid mixing?

I rarely am trying for the fastest recharge possible. I never use a generator. If I can plug in, there is no real time limit.

When weather and overnight Usage combine to make it obvious my Solar cannot hold absorption voltage for 2+ hours, then there is Meanwell or alternator assist usually in the morning, as I seek to be in the high 90% range before the next discharge cycle begins.

My single screwy 31 was a downgrade in capacity from the dual 27 house bank I had run for 3 sets of batteries previously. Sure the cycles were deeper, and I spent more effort in fine tuning voltages and applying EQ voltages, but this lesser capacity was better $ per cycle by a good factor.

The 27's plates got exposed due to their difficult location, but judging by how quickly/exponentially water usage has increased on the screwy31, I'm guessing that the plate exposure was a sign those 27's would have been done for soon enough, even if I watered them in time.

The T1275 increases my capacity by 20Amp hours over the 31. The 31 was an attempt to have my solar come closer to the 'recommended' 10% rate, but of course this is only approached at solar noon. Trojan recommends a 10 to 13% rate, if one is using a plug in charger, and My solar will be ~8.5% maximum, on June21.

I am eager to have a new t1275 battery to compare its behavior to the Screwy31. I hope It is not too difficult to shoehorn into place. I also have to think about how easy it is to remove so I can reach those furthest 3 cells. The mirror and flashlight trick to check levels is a waste of effort. All one can determine is if the plates are exposed or not. A hydrometer extension tube is in my future especially if the weak sister is one of the 3 furthest.

At least the t1275 will be a battery much closer to a true deep cycle. No more screwing around with these compromised 27 and 31's with deep cycle stickers, that also list CCA ratings.

I had my two T-1275s and four 6s in one big bank on solar last summer for a while. The 6s kept needing water because the T-1275s still wanted charging while the 6s were getting overcharged in the afternoons.

The T-1275s deep cycle and take big inverter loads very well, but they are not the same as 6s for charging them.

Golf car batteries get blast charged 2 to 3x a day, go back on the charger as soon as the golf cart acts sluggish, and then someone drives it back and grabs a fresher charged cart. Then end of the day, into the shed for a full overnight charge session.

Sweeper battery aka the T-1275, runs all night, sweeping floors at stores while everyone else sleeps, until run down. Then back to the shop for a full 14-16 hour recharge session to be ready again for the next nights work. Some golf carts run on T-1275's but in my opinion, it's not in the same league speed charging wise, as a T-105. A T-105's design screams "abuse me" on the charging cycle, it has a lot of battery acid in it, it's not confined to dimensions of height, as it sits easily with plenty of space under the seat, so the height dimension of the design is not a recharging constraint. Not so with the T-1275... it's stuffed into a compact tiny floor sweeper, it's dimensions are a design constraint, so I assume you need to recharge it accordingly, slowly. Good candidate for solar recharging all day on sunny days, to get it fully top charged, but in my observation, it takes it's sweet mary anne time to get those last few percentage points to truly get it top charged. Not getting it top charged daily is where the cumulative damage starts on a T-1275. It gets stubborn fast if it doesn't get those last few points daily. IMHO.... of course. But I'll defer to mexicowanderers input... my battery had been pretty worked before I received it.

Mexi
You brought up a good point
Might I ask aren't golf cart batteries in the same industrial category, along with lift batteries etc..
Things that are used all day or work shift
Then They get a nice 8~12 hour unmolested recharge
I have posted before..That one day a week I try to give my batteries an all day recharge via genset plus whatever solar can provide

Hey maybe that's too much work and to much money
Let's see one gallon less than $4, SO four days per month of all day charging less than $16, about 7 months to save for one new battery, replace seven batteries will take 49 months of savings
I think the batteries will be dead before that, and replaced
Oops ... better keep doing what I'm doing
My current batteries are not golf cart batteries, that's why there are seven instead of eight

The 1275 was specifically designed to accept "overnight" charging or full day-cycle charging. A cheater is to provide mechanical electrolyte circulation via gassing but that raises even more issues. Absorbsion limit to light bubbling then 20-30 seconds at say 15.5 volts then return to max absorbsion for 10-minutes. This really works well but few would bother to work out the necessary mechanism to enable flash charging. It can reduce a 3-hour recharge to 2 hours and small change. Oops Pandora's Box, time....

My take is that the T-1275 is perhaps a little bit acid starved. It prefers low and slow near the top charge portion. It takes a day for the Specific gravity to pop up after an EQ session if you can get it to 16V.


I had to do 3 or 4 equalize sessions over maybe 10 days to finally get my abused battery to pop the SG up on the weak cell and get it in spec, and I seem to recall it finally happened on a hot summer day, like 95F + that day to get all the sulfur off. So, in a sense, it was stubborn.

My observation is not to abuse it, don't get the battery below 60% SOC, and it's a professional grade battery that requires professional recharging care daily to get it topped off, not 90%, nor 95%, or 98. I find an hour late in the day to 15.0V if on a small solar panel gets it down to about 4 ah from 9.5 to 9 when it will take all my 150W panel will put out. If I do this daily on a 14 day trip, it will not take much of an EQ charge, time wise, to have it desulfated and ready for storage. Mine are rather gassy, but I don't seem to be losing water much at all... champagne bubbles on 14.8V, a bit faster, about same size at 15.0V. Stirred, and that's what it takes to get fresh electrolyte near the plates that can take the sulfur off of them. It is a slow process, for the last few percentage points of fully charged on these.

YMMV, find out what works for you. Stay on top of that weak sister cell. I may give up a little life pushing mine to 15.0V for 30 minutes to an hour daily, or maybe not... I don'f full time, I want my battery in tip top shape before going into storage fully disconnected.

Is it a good battery for me? You bet. Is it a little fussy? You bet. Will it last? Mine has an H1 build date, and was worked hard on a golf course for at least 1.5 years here in So Cal, where they golf year round, weather wise.

Probably a good fit for you, if as Mex says, you figure it out quickly, what makes it tick, and what keeps it happy, baby sitting wise. It will need a bit of baby sitting, IMHO... not for everyone, like a T-105. The T-105 charges easily, efficiently, and needs not much care for long life. I think a T-1275 is a different animal. A little more quirky, and a little more stubborn to get the last few points of top charge into it.

Thanks Mex.

I'll definitely be fine tuning absorption duration and float for the T1275. I wonder how much different it will be than BFL's or Niners experience since I will get the battery new, and theirs needed some loving after life in a golf cart to return to respectable cycling

I hope the weak sister cell is one of the 3 I will have easy access too.

There are a few different versions of the t1275 with terminals and fill hole configuration being the variables.

The H4 plug on my headlight is the limiting factor is lowering the tray enough for it to fit.

I'm hoping the screwy31 can last another 25 to 30 cycles. I'd really like to cycle it till a cell shorts, just to see when it happens, But a taller maroon battery in its place will fill me with warm and fuzzies.

Now, if Only i could fit the J185E but 15 inches long and 14 inches high could never fit.