New Batteries

Pangaea Ron wrote:
I have (4) 6v Group 24 Interstate golf cart batteries (232 Ah) purchased in 2014 that seem to be getting tired and do not seem to come up to charge anymore.

I am looking to replace them and am interested in looking and any and all options: Lithium, AGM or? Any thoughts?

I recently built my own LFP battery. Takes about the same size and similar weight. But it is rated 1200 amp hours usable vs. 200 for the 4x GC2 it replaced. Incredible difference. Yes it cost more.

I will run down the assorted battery types for your consideration

Group 24's are generally MARINE/deep cycle. really a starting battery and need to be charged around 75% Minimum.. If you go below that they age swiftly. Much below that and it's toast time.

GC-2. about the same "Footprint" but higher. These are 6 volt DEEP CYCLE batteries so where as your Group 24's are hooked total capacity about 300 AH of which you can use about 75

-12V+
-12V+
-12V+
-12V+

You hooke these up
-6b+-6v+
-6b+-6v+ And your total capacity is 220-260 (Depennding on which you buy) and you can use half (110-130) nearly doubling your usable power for the same price

One negative. You can get "Maintenance free" 24's but the GC2. are usually "Flooded wet" meaning you need to add distilled water from time to time.

AGM: is a special form of Maintenance free that can be mounted with regard to "This side up" You are more likely to find a Group 24 DEEP CYCLE in AGM however they are way more expensive and in my opinion no advantage to them in 99% of all installs (The rest the battery has to be mounted in an odd position) Great for Motor cycles.

LiFePo4 This is a new technology.. So it's still "emerging" and the price is dropping... It's very interesting...

Some companies say "Do not parallel" (Bioenno) others say "Go right ahead" (Battle born) This is due to the battery management modules that are or are not part of the battery.. I understand Battle born has a deal with Progressive Dynamics to make a converter specific to their batteries.

With LiFePO4 you can use over 90% of the stored power so

What's more while the Lead Acid batteries as the state of charge goes down the voltage goes down fairly swiftly

With LiFePO4 it hangs in there till the end. (Slight drop but nothing to worry about)

50% on lead acid my TS-2000 is not happy (100 watt ham transmitter) 25% on a LiFePO4 and it works fine

Now the downsides on the Lithium.
There is a slight danger of "Thermal runaway" (Fire) but the battery management systems usually prevent that.
They are expensive. though as I said the cost is going down
And do not perform well in COLD weather (though you can warm them a bit and they are good)

I have one SMALL one (like 12 AH IN truth that's close to the usable power in a Group 25) mine is the one they say "Do not parallel"

IF I ever get another RV I'm going Battle Born Lithium less somethign better happens.

After 15 previous campers, learning about batteries, vehicle charging, solar, etc. we decided to purchase a pair of 6v SiO2 (lead crystal) Soneil 260 ah batteries, that I had been considering for at least 5 years. We live in Minnesota, camping in cold weather, and didn't want to take lithiums (LFP) in and out of our camper all the time. We also didn't want to spend additional money to replace the WFCO charger and/or add a DC to DC charger.

I'm amazed at the rate the Soneils charge, up to 90% SOC as fast as lithium, and are easy to top off with our 465 watts of solar on the roof (for the first 6 months of ownership we only had 170 watts on the roof and they still charged to 90% easily and topped off 9 of 10 days). SiO2 does not have the sulfation problems of traditional lead acid so they can be easily used to 10% SOC.

LFP has problems with operating in the cold (BMS should shut off at -4F) and in the heat. LFP start degrading at 110F and we can easily see that in our battery box in the summer. SiO2s are fine from -40F to 150F.

SiO2s weigh the same as lead acid batteries, so there is no weight savings, but we're fine with our current weight.

At $1,000 delivered to a UPS facility in Tucson they were much cheaper. I figure 230 ah's of usable power. To get 200 ah's of LFPs you need two Battleborns at $1,700 ($850 each), or gamble on some of the low-priced LFP batteries and for us in cold weather that is a problem. Then you need to add in the price of a new WFCO charger, probably a new solar charge controller and/or DC-DC charger. It's more than just the price of the batteries.

OTOH you had great luck with your previous batteries, so why not purchase another set.

Enjoy,

Perry

I agree with those that recommended to stay with your GC batteries. My 2 6v Sam's Club GC batteries are 14 years old now and have served me well. Every year I expect to have to buy a new set and I equalize and desulfate them and they still get me through a week of dry camping with out generator usage(I only dry Camp). I think maintenance is key to how long they will last. Try to equalize and desufate to see if you can restore capacity. If not the only thing I would check before buying from Sam's or Costco is to see what GC batteries they now carry. Sam's and Costco change their suppliers from time to time and some on here report the newer Costco batteries are not lasting as long.

Thanks for all you responses, you gave me confidence in replacing what I have. I'm truly amazed that the price hasn't changed much!

Because you live where it gets cold, if you are wanting to upgrade, I'd suggest SiO2 may be a good fit. They are a drop in replacement. Take a trip to Canada to pick them up?

If you don't want to upgrade, then stick with what you have now--which has been giving you exceptional service.

If you are tired of maintaining flooded batteries, try to find some AGM's that are reconditioned cell tower batteries. They work out to $1 per amp-hour. Your local Interstate battery shop sells them.

BFL13 wrote:

Pangaea Ron wrote:
I have (4) 6v Group 24 Interstate golf cart batteries (232 Ah) purchased in 2014 that seem to be getting tired and do not seem to come up to charge anymore.

I am looking to replace them and am interested in looking and any and all options: Lithium, AGM or? Any thoughts?

Seven years from 6s is very good. IMO just get four more. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

X2!

If it isn't broke, don't fix it.

And you can pocket the money that you didn't spend on the Lithiums for the next replacement set of FLAs in 7 yrs or so..

Side note, I got 9 yrs out of my first set of FLA GC2's could have stretched it another 2 yrs but was losing some capacity..

Pangaea Ron wrote:
I have (4) 6v Group 24 Interstate golf cart batteries (232 Ah) purchased in 2014 that seem to be getting tired and do not seem to come up to charge anymore.

I am looking to replace them and am interested in looking and any and all options: Lithium, AGM or? Any thoughts?

Seven years from 6s is very good. IMO just get four more. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Having an engineering background and always working on the latest and greatest the OEMs I have been employed with have to offer, I will continue to use FLA GC2 batteries as they have never left us without enough juice to keep RVing in 3 decades. I can simply roll over to Samsclub and purchase another battery bank for less than what I spend in fuel costs on a single out of state RVing trip, feels good knowing we have reliable 12 volt reserves for the next 7-8 years, amounts to just a few dollars a month over their lifespan.

With our class A we use the pro-fill system on our battery bank, a few pumps of distilled water couple times a year to top off batteries, no over-filling, no taking off caps, and very little corrosion buildup keeps battery maintenance to a minimum. Improper charging is the main reason for lackluster battery performance, we are extremely hard on our GC2 batteries, having smart converters and inverter chargers over the years makes it simple to just plug in and let them precisely replenish consumed amphours along with timed equalization routines.

theoldwizard1 wrote:
Lithium is the answer if you have "deep pockets" ! Battle Born is the Cadillac but they also charge Cadillac prices. There are several lesser known brands on the market that are challenging BB in both price and amount of power stored.

SOK has gotten very good online reviews. Bonus is two SOK batteries actually have more "usable storage" than your 4 6V lead acid and they weight a lot less !

Be aware you may have to upgrade your converter as lithium has different charging requirements

Thanks

I understand that I may need to upgrade the converter and revise shared starting issues when the starting and house batteries can share that function.

I plan on keeping the MH for another 10 years, if I last that long?