Off-grid Winter RVing Question

[paulnptld]

Hi everyone,

I have a 21 foot Toyota Dolphin that I'm planning to take on long ski weekends on Mt. Hood. Typical nighttime temps are in the low teens. Sometimes (thought rarely) single digits. Daytime highs are usually in the mid to high 20s.

Here's what I have to work with so far: A 2100 watt inverter generator with remote start, an 18,000btu Mr. Heater Big Buddy on a dedicated 20lb propane tank, a regular blower type propane heater operating off a separate 20lb tank, and one 12v deep cycle battery. BTW, the resorts on Mt. Hood allow boondocking for a few days in their parking lots.

I know my wife would appreciate it greatly if she could use the RV's shower, toilet, etc. after a long day on the slopes. Assuming I have just one battery and want to leave the generator off at night, what can I do to make this happen?

[mena661]

paulnptld wrote:
I know RVs aren't intended for true winter use, but I'm too stubborn to let that stop me. 🙂

Looks like you got everything covered to me. Enjoy your time on the slopes. Keep us updated.

[DryCamper11]

paulnptld wrote:
I know RVs aren't intended for true winter use, but I'm too stubborn to let that stop me. 🙂

BTW, freeze sensors are pretty cheap and fire up at a few degrees above freezing. An alarm hooked to one positioned near your water pipes at the riskiest location - near a wall - in your cabinets, etc.might be helpful. Or get one of those remote temp sensors. You can figure out the coldest spots and reposition your fans, etc to warm them up a bit.

Good luck.

[paulnptld]

Some findings: The 30 gallon fresh water tank is mounted inside the RV, just below the sofa. It's easily accessible through a large cabinet drawer. Fresh water lines, and the water pump are also located at the front of this cabinet, just a few inches from the RV's living space. The floor is carpeted in that area, and it looks like there's an inch of polystyrene insulation at the back of the wall.

The hot water tank (6 gallons) is located inside the RV as well, and is mounted below the oven. It too is accessible through a cabinet.

The only tanks that are exposed to the elements are grey and black water.

Here's what I'm going to try. I've winterized the holding tanks by adding two gallons of anti-freeze. On a single 20lb tank of propane, the Big Buddy is rated at 220 hours (9 days) run time on low. That's approximately 5,000 BTUs. This weekend temps were in the mid-40s. Running the Big Buddy on medium (9,000 BTUs) quickly got the RV interior to the mid-80s. I'm hoping that by leaving those cabinets open and running a small 12v fan to circulate warm air into those compartments I'll be in good shape. I'll leave the Big Buddy on low while hitting the slopes. Temps on Mt. Hood are usually in the mid-20s and higher, so we shall see.

Incidentally, neither CO detector indicated anything above 0ppm. That was with two windows cracked to provide adequate fresh air.

This weekend I plan on parking for a night at Timberline Lodge, elevation 6,000ft. I'll keep everyone posted. I know RVs aren't intended for true winter use, but I'm too stubborn to let that stop me. 🙂

[pnichols]

pianotuna wrote:
Replace the return air grill on the furnace with a fan. On my rv that circulates warm "living space" air under the cabinets and pushes some air along the furnace duct work. I chose to use a dual window fan unit which is controlled by a mechanical thermostat that lives beside the water pump next to the outdoor wall of the RV.

The fan unit draws just 23 watts ...

That's an excellent suggestion - depending upon the interior design of your RV - including whether or not your propane furnace has multi-ducted outlets with their tubes running along inside various cabinet voids.

That setup would work like a champ inside our Class C ... making allowance for the fact that during very cold weather drycamping the extra fan(s) will draw current in addition to the propane furnace's already heavy current draw whenever the furnace was running. (Plus, in our case, the grey & black electric tank heaters would also be drawing heavy current, too.) It would be nice if the Fan-Tastic Vent company would offer an "Endless Breeze" type fan especially for the use you suggest, as it would probably draw less current than the one you show in your photo.

As far as I can estimate, extreme cold weather RV living is going to require hookups or a lot of daily generator running.

[pianotuna]

Hi Paul,

It is my understanding that the Big Buddy is not a catalytic heater as it uses ceramic burner tiles.

You are wrong--catalytic heaters will produce CO when oxygen content starts to drop. What is worse is that they do not self extinguish as a blue flame heater does. They simply produce more and more CO. The CO monitor will not tell you when O2 is too low.

You are relying on an O2 sensor in the Big Buddy. I would not trust that much at all.

My generator is also exterior to the RV, on rack that fits the trailer hitch. In my opinion it is not safe to run it while sleeping.

paulnptld wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
Hi Paul,

At the first sign of a head ache turn the blue flame heater OFF immediately. It is a singularly BAD idea to use one when sleeping. What could go wrong is that you could die.

paulnptld wrote:
Ok. Here's my plan. 18,000BTU heater and the fact that temps in the Cascades are usually in the 20s and 30s What could possibly go wrong?

Catalytic heaters aren't the same as traditional 'blue fame' units. Virtually no CO is produced. Regardless, I have two battery powered CO detectors in my small RV, and will always have the window behind the Big Buddy cracked open to provide adequate ventilation. I spent a few hours in my RV the other day with the unit operating at 5,000BTU and the CO levels stayed well below the alarm threshold. My generator is actually mounted on an open cage outside the RV, so no concerns there.

[greenrvgreen]

Certainly plenty of people agree with you on this, while others (like myself) steer well clear of any hint of CO. No one's saying a catalytic process is going to be a risk when operated properly, however I would like to point out that you'll be asleep when anything might potentially go wrong. CO poisoning just feels like a deep, restful slumber.

Regarding gennie use in ski area parking lots, I don't think this will be as widely tolerated as you hope. My own devilishly clever setup involves the use of 250 ft of cord, and a snowbank.

[paulnptld]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi Paul,

At the first sign of a head ache turn the blue flame heater OFF immediately. It is a singularly BAD idea to use one when sleeping. What could go wrong is that you could die.

paulnptld wrote:
Ok. Here's my plan. 18,000BTU heater and the fact that temps in the Cascades are usually in the 20s and 30s What could possibly go wrong?

Catalytic heaters aren't the same as traditional 'blue fame' units. Virtually no CO is produced. Regardless, I have two battery powered CO detectors in my small RV, and will always have the window behind the Big Buddy cracked open to provide adequate ventilation. I spent a few hours in my RV the other day with the unit operating at 5,000BTU and the CO levels stayed well below the alarm threshold. My generator is actually mounted on an open cage outside the RV, so no concerns there.

[pianotuna]

Hi Paul,

I've camped at -37 C (-34 f) and boondocked at -27 (-16.6 f) in blizzard conditions for five days. My solar did little for me. I did run a generator for about four to five hours per day. That RV had two Marine batteries from Walmart totaling 250 amp-hours. I did use the four stove top burners as a blue flame heater when I was NOT in the RV.

Replace the return air grill on the furnace with a fan. On my rv that circulates warm "living space" air under the cabinets and pushes some air along the furnace duct work. I chose to use a dual window fan unit which is controlled by a mechanical thermostat that lives beside the water pump next to the outdoor wall of the RV.

The fan unit draws just 23 watts and works better than a 1500 watt fan based heater which I tried using inside the cabinet.



It may be necessary to protect the fridge from freezing up. I use a TC-3 thermocube which controls a light bulb in the external compartment.

I won't use a combustion heater inside an RV. My daughter is a carbon monoxide survivor.

I won't run a generator while sleeping for the same reason.

Read this thread to find out what I did for windows, vents and skylight coverings and some early results. a fix for winter

This is just my 2nd night with my new covers.

Here is a thread on Winter Camping

paulnptld wrote:
Steve -

I noticed that the water pump and most of the lines run along the interior floor, behind cabinets. I'll probably buy a small electric heater (200w) to warm up those compartments.

[pianotuna]

Hi Paul,

At the first sign of a head ache turn the blue flame heater OFF immediately. It is a singularly BAD idea to use one when sleeping. What could go wrong is that you could die.

paulnptld wrote:
Ok. Here's my plan. 18,000BTU heater and the fact that temps in the Cascades are usually in the 20s and 30s What could possibly go wrong?

[mena661]

paulnptld wrote:
Ok. Here's my plan. A 150 watt solar panel and an extra 225ah deep cycle, all for the purpose of keeping the fresh water tank and lines heated. I'll use antifreeze for the grey and black tanks. Add to that my 2100 watt generator, additional insulation, 18,000BTU heater

Now we're talking!!

[SteveAE]

Paul,

Those LED lights will help a lot.

You may be fine just opening up the cabinet doors to let the air mix rather than trying to run a heater in there.

Can you see the fresh water tank (or any water lines) when looking underneath your rig?

Yup, winter is on the way.

Steve

[paulnptld]

Steve -

All of my internal lights are LED.

I noticed that the water pump and most of the lines run along the interior floor, behind cabinets. I'll probably buy a small electric heater (200w) to warm up those compartments. For the actual fresh water tank, I'm guessing I'll need a heat pad.

The forecast is looking good this weekend. Snow level down to 2,000ft and plenty of moisture on the way! It looks like Whistler is opening next week as well...

[SteveAE]

Paul,

That extra battery will help a lot. The solar will help as well if you can keep it clear of snow.

I assume that you have (or will have) converted most of your lights to LED's?

Are your tanks and water lines heated by your furnace or did you plan to use electric heaters on them?

You'll have fun....once we get enough snow to play in that is.

Steve

[paulnptld]

Ok. Here's my plan. A 150 watt solar panel and an extra 225ah deep cycle, all for the purpose of keeping the fresh water tank and lines heated. I'll use antifreeze for the grey and black tanks. Add to that my 2100 watt generator, additional insulation, 18,000BTU heater and the fact that temps in the Cascades are usually in the 20s and 30s...and I'm sure I'll still find a way to break something. 🙂

Great feedback. I'm ready to hit the slopes, regardless of how (un)comfortable winter RV dry camping might prove to be! It's a 91 Toyota Dolphin. What could possibly go wrong?