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questions re camping at altitude with norcold refrigerator

hodaka
Explorer
Explorer
Anyone can respond, but if you have dry camped above about 5,000 feet with an rv with a Norcold refrigerator, you may have experienced this issue.

We have a 2014 Lance 1685 travel trailer, which comes with a Norcold N611 refrigerator. We just returned from a couple of weeks north of Moab, Utah at about the 4,500 foot level. After leaving the Moab, Utah area we spent several days at the 7,200 foot level in Nevada. We were dry camping. The Norcold N611 refrigerator gave us trouble (failed to reignite, see below) at the 4,500 foot level and more trouble (tried but failed to ignite, failed to reignite, see below) at the 7,200 foot level.

At lower elevations like 3500 feet, our Norcold N611 fridge works okay, but fails to work properly at higher elevations, see details below. At both lower and higher elevations, all the other propane appliances (hot water heater, cabin heater, and cooktop stove burners) worked without trouble all the time. Here's the details.

From Sea Level to about 4500 foot elevation. During the daytime the Norcold N611 ignited normally when moving the switch to the "Auto" or "Gas" setting. The electronic ignition would go through its sparking cycle, and the propane would ignite, and the fridge cooled. After an hour or two, the fridge propane burner would shut off, and then re-ignite normally after some time (about 1/2 hour as best I remember). After reignition, the fridge cooled, then the burner shut off after an hour or two, then reignite after some time, about a 1/2 hour or so. All seemed to be working well, no problem, we thought.

At 4500 foot elevation. At night, the fridge attempts to reignite -- the sparking cycle begins but ends without reignition. There are usually a few "whump" noises (or "burp" noises or whatever you want to call them) that indicate the propane is igniting but not staying ignited. Once the sparking cycle ends without reignition, the two fridge lights flash on and off indicating the propane has failed to reignite. We move the switch to "off" and wait a few seconds, then move the switch to "gas" or "auto". Sometimes the fridge propane would fail to ignite, with the whumping/burping noise, and the two flashing lights come on. Sometimes it would reignite and burn for an hour or two, then shut off, and then fail to reignite after the sparking cycle. So every morning when we'd wake up the two lights would be flashing, the fridge propane burner not burning. During the day (warmer temperatures compared to night-time), we'd move the switch to "off", wait a few seconds, move the switch to "gas" or "auto", and keep doing that until the burner ignited properly. During the day, but not the night, the burner seemed to shut off and later reignite properly, just as it did at lower elevations.

At 7200 foot elevation. We arrive at the same camping site we've used for over a decade with our previous 5th wheel which had a Dometic fridge, which worked fine at any elevation we camped at, including campsites at 10,000 feet in Colorado. We of course leveled up, we always level up. The Norcold N611 is not burning, we move the switch to off, then to "gas" or "auto", and the ignition sparking cycle runs its course, but no burner ignition even after more than a dozen tries over at least a one hour period. We wait a hour or so, and again move the switch from off to "gas" or "auto". Several tries, each a few minutes apart, same problem. Burner will not ignite.

We get out the Norcold Owners Manual. Lo and behold! on page 8 of the Norcold Manual, it tells me that at altitudes above 5500 feet "you may experience burner outages". And Norcold says "... Norcold recommends you operate the refrigerator on AC when at altitudes higher than 5500 feet..."

There is of course no AC nearby, nor am I going to run a generator all day and all night in the mountains.

After leaving the campsite at 7,200 feet we descend to 3,000 feet and below. The Norcold N611 works normally once again. So its failure is altitude related, and I never would have purchased any camper having a Norcold had Norcold's CYA disclaimers been brought to my attention.

So far as I can tell from internet postings, some Norcold N611 fridges do work properly above 5500 feet, and some don't. If you Google the words "Norcold" and "altitude" and "orifice", you'll find further details of this Norcold problem. Hopefully you have one that works above 5500 feet!

For those of you like me, what did you do to fix the problem? I'll have my dealer check the regulator pressure, and also whether the distance from the spark ignitor to the flame is correct. Maybe that will help. I see some internet posts saying the propane is too rich at altitude (less oxygen at high altitudes), and that somebody used to sell orifices with smaller openings to fix the problem, but apparently no longer. Anybody find a source of properly sized orifices?

I called Norcold, explained my problem, and the pleasant Norcold rep told me that because of "liability" concerns, Norcold could not tell me anything. Take it into your dealer, I was told. Lance tells me to call Norcold.

Have any of you gotten practical help? Like a high altitude orifice kit? So that the Norcold unit works properly at high altitude?

Working properly at high altitude is all I want, just like my Dometic used to.

All help/suggestions very much appreciated. Just want to solve this problem, this is my first post here. Thank you.
14 REPLIES 14

reed_cundiff
Explorer
Explorer
Interesting thread. There are enough things to go wrong with appliances in an RV.We have boondocked at 10,600' and had no problems with our Norcold. We have sufficient solar to run it off AC during the day (and all night if it will be a good sunny day following though we start the day with about a -4 kW-hr deficit in battery suite. Have had no problems with the Olympian Wave 8 as well though other have.

ColoradoRon
Explorer
Explorer
I live at about 5500 ft elevation and my Norcold refrigerator works great. I have camped at 10500 ft elevation and have not had any problems.
ColoradoRon

2010 Jayco Grayhawk 31SS
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RJsfishin
Explorer
Explorer
Like another said, if reigniting is the only problem, let the temp rise to a tolerable level, then ignite it w/ a propane lighter. Set the temp control to the coldest setting, and it will run for several several hours to bring temp way down again. You maybe have to do this only once.....maybe twice a day.

In a really tight spot, I can always make a fridge run by hot wiring the gas valve, and ignite w/ a lighter.

I also have a finiky Norcold, and I just make the best of it.

Ain't it amazing tho, we can get to the moon.....even Mars, no problem, but we can't make a dam fridge to work at 6K elev !!
Rich

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Gjac
Explorer III
Explorer III
I don't know if this will help the discussion or not. I have an older Norcold 682 that worked well at higher elevations. However I noticed that as it got older the slots rusted more an more each year when I wire brushed them for cleaning, allowing more air to enter. I could no longer but a direct replacement burner(Norcold told me I had to buy the whole new unit). I made a slide to go over the burner so that I could adjust the air to fuel mix, like on a WH. I am not suggesting you do this, but during my investigation for a permanent fix I found burners with 6 and 7 slots in them. My thought is maybe a burner with more slots or one that you could be modified to allow more air in for higher elevations would work. Chris Bryant helped me with a permanent fix for mine and may be he can help this discussion also.

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Explorer
Had GREAT cooling at 11,200 ft. Operated a Flamaneta 1,000 watt eqvt propane lantern for two-weeks at Goethe Lake elevation 13,100 ft (horsepack golden trout trip).

Extreme altitudes are sometimes cold. We had a week of 10F morning temps in early August.

Old-Biscuit
Explorer III
Explorer III
Norcold (or Dometic) do NOT have a 'high altitude orifice' kit.

The fridge and other LP appliances are metered to operate on 11" WC propane pressure.
At high altitudes the air/fuel ratio is rich (too much fuel not enough air)
A smaller propane orifice might correct the air/fuel ratio enough to get flame to lite off repeatedly BUT may not supply enough btu's for proper heat transfer so that the ammonia can vaporize in perk tube. (stack temp is roughly 350*F)
SO you might end up with a good flame.........low heat and no cooling????
Is it time for your medication or mine?


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profdant139
Explorer II
Explorer II
Astro, don't give up. Our fridge manual said it would not work well over 5000 feet. It works fine at 9500 feet. So you never know till you try.
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AstroRig57
Explorer
Explorer
Well crud. This is the last thing I wanted to hear.

Our "new to us" Class-A has a Norcold refrigerator. This is our first Norcold as our past RV's, a travel trailer and a Class-C, both had Dometic fridges. While investigating whether our unit was subject to a recall (it isn't) I stumble upon the Norcold FAQ that said their units may not work properly on gas above 5,500 feet in elevation. That led me to the same statement in our owner's manual.

This is not good as two of our favorite dark sky sites for astronomy, the Mt.Pinos Nordic Base parking lot (above Frazier Park, CA) and Grandview Campground in the White Mountains are at 8,400 feet and 8,600 feet in elevation respectively. We also go up to Big Bear. We have enough solar power to facilitate running the fridge off 110v with an inverter in the daytime, but not enough installed battery capacity to do the same overnight (especially while also running my wife's BiPAP). I've considered adding two more T-105's, but I really don't want to give up the outside storage space.

I guess I'm going to have to call around and see if any of our independent RV repairs shops have an orifice they might suggest for high altitude use. I can't see the nearest Camping World store being willing to "step outside the box" or stick their neck out on this one.

We haven't been to any of our high altitude sites since getting this rig, maybe there won't be a problem, but I sure would like to be prepared if there is.
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wgriswold
Explorer
Explorer
My Norcold works fine at 6600 ft. where I live. You might try removing the outside door to facilitate fresh combustion air access to the burner, although I don't have to.
2016 Ram 2500 4x4 Laramie
Arctic Fox 25Y

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Explorer
Whatever works best for the individual. The monster 400-amp Niehoff on the bus kept the 8 L-16's happy which kept the Trace 812SB fed.

But regardless -

A talented propane man can tweak the flame of your Norcold to immediately light off at extreme altitude. Carry tools to change orifices. At 11K feet I stored refrigerated stuff in an Igloo ice chest in an outside storage bin. Worked like a charm.

Two_Hands
Explorer
Explorer
My Norcold would not work on propane at 9400'. When we got back down to about 7000' it started working again. It worked normally on electricity at both altitudes.
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edatlanta
Explorer
Explorer
I know there is a trend to residential type refrigerators, but I really like my Norcold. It cools fine, freezes not quite as good as a resi unit, but good enough for me and it will run on propane and 12v power for weeks without any external power, generator or shore power.

No resi refrigerator for me and I full time 5 years now. If I'm going to "HAVE TO" be plugged in to have a working refrigerator I might as well be in a s&b.
Ed
KM4STL

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Fulltime since 2010

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Explorer
Head for a propane bulk plant with repair shop. They'll fix you up with a reduced orifice that will work fine. My Norcold ran fine at California's Saddlebag Lake elevation 11,200 ft. But it had fits in Mammoth Lakes, elevation 8000 with the original orifice.

Just another one of the reasons the absorbsion refrigerator was pitched out the back door.

rexlion
Explorer
Explorer
Is there any spark gap adjustment on it? Air is thinner at higher altitude and thus less oxygen content. If the spark gap were a bit wider, it would ignite better. I once had the same problem with an RV furnace.

As a temporary fix, maybe you could use a long lighter (like for lighting campfires and fireplaces) to manually ignite the thing while it's trying to spark? I have no idea of there is access from the outside for such a procedure, but maybe it's worth a look.
(edit: whoops, I didn't see the part about it igniting but not staying lit. Yup, orifice size change might be the solution.)
Mike G.
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