Replacing my Converter/Charger - Help

[Steve92004]

Hi Guys/Gals
I have a 25' Weekend Warrior toy hauler and last week in Baja my my Iota DSL-30 converter/charger stopped working
I bought a PowerMax PM4 100A converter/charger to replace it
I was thinking about just putting it in the same spot as the old converter/charger but I started reading around and most said to move it closer to the battery.
It got kind of confusing on how to do that, they said to run power from the breaker that supplies the converter to the new location and use the existing wires to run the power back to the fuse box
I don't get that part
I'm also going to be replacing my one 12v Deep Cycle with two 6 Volt deep cycle batteries, that part makes sense to me
Could somebody help clarify the moving of the converter or if it's just ok to replace the old one in the same place
Thanks!

Here's a picture of what I have, sorry for the multimeter in the way, I took the photo when I was trouble shooting the problem

[BFL13]

Yes, if you have a wiring issue fuse panel to battery now, and that is why you thought the Iota is broken, then that wiring still needs to be fixed. It will be ok as #8 for just going from battery to fuse panel work. It will not be carrying big amps for battery charging anymore. If the Iota is used as the Float/shorepower that will be after the 75 has done the heavy work, so the amps from the Iota will be low and the #8 can do that.

On the instructions for the 75, read carefully. They warn not to twiddle the voltage pot when it is set to three-stage or it will mess up the voltages for those stages. Also, to go back from single to three, first while still on single, set 14.6. Now whwn you go back to three stage the first stage will be at 14.6 and the other two voltages will be correct too.

If you do mess up the three stage voltages then you can restore matters by going to single set 14.6 and go back to three.

[beemerphile1]

Steve92004 wrote:

beemerphile1 wrote:
Again I ask, what size cables are in it now?

How far is it from converter to battery now?

I just got home and measured it

It's 15' of 8 gauge cable from the converter to the battery terminals
Output of of the converter is 13.7 volts at the terminals and 12.8 volts at the battery terminals

Eight gauge is too small. You will benefit from larger cable or moving it closer. If the location is 15' it actually translates to a 30' path for the electricity.

Dropping from 13.7 to 12.8 would indicate you have one or more corroded/loose/bad connections currently. That is a problem.

[BFL13]

Ok you are in business with your new 75 amper. 🙂

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I am curious where you got it. Strange confusion in delivering a different one from what you ordered. Also I didn't know they make a PM4-LK. I thought they were PM3-LKs. Once PowerMax itself updates their website we should know what is happening with the new models. BoatandRV has some LKs, but is a little chaotic--selling some LKs on Amazon but not yet updating his own website where he is selling older model PMs at half price! Weird, but it will no doubt all get fixed eventually 😞
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Earlier you said you had 13.7 at the converter and 12.x at the battery, but in the OP you said the Iota 30 was shot. Before you cut any wires for the Iota, let's revisit that. If the Iota is putting out 13.7 when plugged in to 120 it is working. The 12.x at the battery can have other reasons.

If it is working then IMO you should leave it be as your back up converter, while placing the new converter up front by the batteries.
They don't bother each other.

If the Iota is to come out, leave the battery wires on the fuse panel and just take out the short wires from the converter to the fuse panel.

The left hand hole is for the switch that makes it either a fixed three/four stage automatic converter like usual in RVs OR a single voltage like your Iota without the IQ4---except--when the switch is to single you can now twiddle the voltage pot in the other hole and pick your own single voltage and it will stay at that until you change it.

You can swap back and forth. It is very nifty! 🙂

Your new 6s will want 14.8 for Bulk and Absorption , so set the single voltage to that and leave it alone after that. When your batteries are charged up, switch to auto and it will drop to 13.6 OR leave it at 14.8 but unplug the 75 and now your Iota will take over doing its 13.6.

BTW if you want you can make it easier to see what you are doing by removing the lid and drilling the holes out bigger and put the lid back on.

[Steve92004]

It has the two holes but only two fuses
The instructions are a little confusing about adjusting it

Also I was checking my RV wiring and the existing converter has two 8 gauge wires coming from each of the positive and negative terminals, one from each runs to the fuse panel and the other runs to the battery
If I relocate the converter to the front near the batteries what do I do about the wires that run from the converter directly to the fuse panel?
Thanks!

[BFL13]

You are saved! Keep it. Two 6s will be able to handle 75 amps.

EDIT--confirm it does have the two holes and an LED lamp by the three fuses to show when power is on. There is a slight chance you might have a different version there-- please post what yours has.

The LKs have adjustable voltage -- what we all need these days with battery specs all over the map.

Read the manual to learn how to operate it using the two holes in the side. You need a small screwdriver like for glasses frames and a pen flashlight to see in there while doing that. DO NOT jam something in there and stab away in the dark and break things (Not that anybody on this forum would do that! Ha ha)

Of course you need a voltmeter in the DC terminals when adjusting the voltage. You need to mount it where you can get at the side with the two holes in it.

You can use say three feet of #4 each for pos and neg to the batteries and it will do the 75 amps.

[Steve92004]

OK so I just opened up the power converter box
I bought a PowerMax PM4 100A but they sent me a Powermax PM4-75LK
I'm guessing I can send that back no problem if it's not going to work for me

[Steve92004]

beemerphile1 wrote:
Again I ask, what size cables are in it now?

How far is it from converter to battery now?

I just got home and measured it

It's 15' of 8 gauge cable from the converter to the battery terminals
Output of of the converter is 13.7 volts at the terminals and 12.8 volts at the battery terminals

[Matt_Colie]

OK Steve,

Hang on....
This is the simple answer of what they are telling you:
Put the converter/charger as close to the bank as you can. (A)
Run the 120V power to it in the same size wire that is there and from the original breaker. (B)
A - You need to be close to the bank to cut the line loss that will make the charger less capable. I.E. a 0.5 volt drop (what you will get with 30 amps on 18' of #10 wire) will cut a 50 amp charger to about 30 amps and there in nothing you can do about that but shorten the cable and/or make it heavier - Lot$ Heavier.
B - The power requirement will still be about the same on the AC side. This is because the current will be 1/10 of what it is on the 12V side.

If you install that 100 amp charger correctly, it will be too large for a pair of GC2s. The heating during a hard charge will shorten their life and increase the water replacement required.

If this did not clear things up, try again, I'm here a lot.

I did goobs of boat work before the depression, and this sort of thing came up a lot.

Matt

[beemerphile1]

Again I ask, what size cables are in it now?

How far is it from converter to battery now?

[BFL13]

" Thanks!
If I try the 100 amp first in that configuration will it mess anything up?"

No. Worst it can do is pop the 120v circuit breaker. Most likely it will stay at 13.6 and do fewer amps because the battery acceptance rate is not so much with only two 6s. On charged up batteries it will do just fine as a shore power converter to run the rig at 13.6, same as what your 30 amper did.

Your problem will be meeting the specs to keep the 6s from going bad in three years instead of more like six or seven years, unless you can give them sone charging time at 14.8v

If you are stuck with the 100, give it a shot for sure--you should be able to fit it into your situation. Or just get two more 6s and now you are wishing you had more than the 100. 🙂

" Reviews are saying it only puts out 80 amps tested and works fine on 15 amp circuits"

Hogwash. It will do more like 103 amps constant for however long it takes before amps taper as the battery voltage reaches 14.6v. If anybody is only getting 80 amps, they have a bad set-up:

A. low voltage input -less than 105v (long extension cord?)
B. more likely they used #8 wire or whatever too thin for 100 amps so they can't get the 100. With the 100 amper you need #1 AWG to get proper results for 6ft distance converter-battery. (two lengths of six feet)

It will also work on 15a doing 100/14.8 but needs the 120v to be near 120v like with a Honda gen at 125v no problem. On lower 120v, and only doing 80 of course it will work on 15. Some "reviewers" don't have a clue, sorry to say. 😞

Here is my 100 amper (early style adjustable voltage type in early 2013 ) doing 103 amps set to 14.8v on four 6s.

[Steve92004]

BFL13 wrote:
Yes. The original battery to converter wires (which also did converter to battery) are sufficient gauge to run the rig's 12v from the battery when not on shore power/converter, so they stay as is.

The new converter can run the rig's 12v by being on the battery which is connected to the fuse panel, so all is good.

Use #4 short wire (under three feet each wire) from the 60 amp converter to the battery to be sure of getting your 60 amps. (if that is the size converter you get)

Thanks!
If I try the 100 amp first in that configuration will it mess anything up?
Reviews are saying it only puts out 80 amps tested and works fine on 15 amp circuits

[BFL13]

Yes. The original battery to converter wires (which also did converter to battery) are sufficient gauge to run the rig's 12v from the battery when not on shore power/converter, so they stay as is.

The new converter can run the rig's 12v by being on the battery which is connected to the fuse panel, so all is good.

Use #4 short wire (under three feet each wire) from the 60 amp converter to the battery to be sure of getting your 60 amps. (if that is the size converter you get)

[Steve92004]

Referring to my original question of moving the converter forward...
When they said use the original wires for running back to the DC panel are they referring to the original battery charging wires since I would be putting larger short cables from the new location to the batteries?

[Steve92004]

BFL13 wrote:

Steve92004 wrote:
So should I pick up a smaller converter/charger?

If you can return the 100 and get a 60 instead that would make more sense IMO. (Get the new PM3- LK model too, not the older PM3 or PM4 type--the LK has an adjustable voltage, which is great for matching to your battery charging specs)

Another thing is what generator do you run the converter with off-grid? You could run your old 30 amper with a small gen, but a 55 or 60 amper will need a 2000w (1600 continuous)--a 1000 is not enough. I need my Honda 3000 to run my PowerMax 100 doing 100/14.8

The generator is a built in Onan 4000 Microquiet

[BFL13]

Steve92004 wrote:
So should I pick up a smaller converter/charger?

If you can return the 100 and get a 60 instead that would make more sense IMO. (Get the new PM3- LK model too, not the older PM3 or PM4 type--the LK has an adjustable voltage, which is great for matching to your battery charging specs)

Another thing is what generator do you run the converter with off-grid? You could run your old 30 amper with a small gen, but a 55 or 60 amper will need a 2000w (1600 continuous)--a 1000 is not enough. I need my Honda 3000 to run my PowerMax 100 doing 100/14.8