Should I swap GC2s out for Lifeline AGM?

[wildwoodrver]

Planning to swap out my 2 year old GC2 batteries (Interstate brand) for 2 six volt AGM Lifelines (220 Amp Hour bank). I dry camp several times a year for a few days and want to extend my electrical capacity. I don’t have solar panels but will break up the dry camping with nights in a campground to recharge, and also run the generator a little.
I got great service out of a Lifeline AGM bank in a previous rig.

My rig is equipped with a “smart” charging system.

Do you think it is worth $1,000 to make this upgrade?

Thanks

[pianotuna]

Agreed, I'm fortunate in my location. But most of the places I visit do give me significant solar energy.

I do get 7 amps of charge at solar noon in leafy shade from a system which maxes out at 17 amps. I do get 3 amps in full rain (again at solar noon)

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Mr Pianotuna,
You live in a sunny area. We haven't seen the sun longer than 30 minutes in the morning for over a month. People who live in the Pacific norwet often do not see significant sun for months.

A decision regarding solar has to be made on reality. If thunderstorms move in at ten AM and exit at sundown then it may give a person pause. This is true in the mountains and true on the Pacific coast. Seeing a multi-thousand dollar solar setup deliver eight amps is rather discouraging.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

What you see are rain clouds not the strato cumulous that is classic from June through October.

Extremely humid air upslopes against the sierra madre del sur. Mexicans almost never say "verano (summer)" it's "Las Aguas" the rainy season. Our normal rainfall here is close to sixty inches.

Go to weather underground and look at the forecast for PATZCUARO MICH MEX. Solid rain for ten days.

I built boats near Eureka, CA. We went weeks with fog. Fifty five degrees on the coast and near 100 degrees just eight miles inland.

This isn't San Miguel de Allende or the cactus and serape interior of the bajio.

[wildwoodrver]

When Li Ion batteries become more reasonable, that will be a great option, but not at today’s pricing.
I am thankful for the great feedback and for the grand (less nice seafood dinner here on the Oregon coast) in my pocket for a project with a better ROI.

[mike-s]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Mr Pianotuna,
You live in a sunny area. We haven't seen the sun longer than 30 minutes in the morning for over a month. People who live in the Pacific norwet often do not see significant sun for months.

You need to change your profile, which says you're in "las peñas, michoacan, mexico".

Or maybe that's the pacific "norwet" of Mexico. But I don't think there's any lack of sun there. Correct me if that's wrong.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Mr Pianotuna,
You live in a sunny area. We haven't seen the sun longer than 30 minutes in the morning for over a month. People who live in the Pacific norwet often do not see significant sun for months.

A decision regarding solar has to be made on reality. If thunderstorms move in at ten AM and exit at sundown then it may give a person pause. This is true in the mountains and true on the Pacific coast. Seeing a multi-thousand dollar solar setup deliver eight amps is rather discouraging.

[pianotuna]

Hi,

No.

Spend the 1000 on solar.

wildwoodrver wrote:
Planning to swap out my 2 year old GC2 batteries (Interstate brand) for 2 six volt AGM Lifelines (220 Amp Hour bank). I dry camp several times a year for a few days and want to extend my electrical capacity. I don’t have solar panels but will break up the dry camping with nights in a campground to recharge, and also run the generator a little.
I got great service out of a Lifeline AGM bank in a previous rig.

My rig is equipped with a “smart” charging system.

Do you think it is worth $1,000 to make this upgrade?

Thanks

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Good LiFePo4 isn't going to see a solar-panel-like ski jump decline in price. Just like AGM batteries have not dumped. There is an ocean of difference between an extraneous supervised Chinese AGM like Full River and a Swooning Butterfly product from People's Liberation Army Plant No 52.

The best bang for the buck will be in electric vehicle batteries which sadly will be designed for major motive power and not for a tiny RV battery compartment.

Charging management will always be the glitch. What is suitable for a car will remain unsuitable for general use. Because of fractionalized splitting of the bank capacity. I just don't see it. Hell they refuse to try and manufacture a good dedicated flooded battery charger. Who manufactures a shunt sensored charger for an AGM battery?

Talking wristwatch, moving sidewalk wishful thinking.

[Matt_Colie]

My Interstate GC2s lasted 9 years before the capacity dropped to 160Ah. Not a bed plan, but wait a few years. Maybe LiFePo4 will come down.

Matt

[3_tons]

Not to knock AGM’s, but now that solar prices have dropped substantially, the maximum best bang for your hard earned buck (e.g. usable capacity and charge recovery) would be to go with cheaper GC’s and assign the remainder of the cash to gain about 200w or more of solar...Now you’ll be that much closer to being self-supporting and generator free...

[JimK-NY]

I just replaced two Lifeline AGM batteries at a cost of about $900 delivered. The Lifeline batteries give me 300 AH and just fit into my battery compartment. In fact I had to remove the sliding tray and will only have about 1/4 inch clearance. I did not see any Lithium batteries of equal capacity at anywhere near the cost.

My previous set lasted 8 years with about 4 years of use during the 8 years. I often travel for months at a time so replacing batteries on the road would be a major issue. I suppose I could have tried for a reconditioning cycle but I did not want to take any chances. Mine are 12 volt. I never saw any need or advantage for 6 volt, nor would they fit in my compartment.

[ScottG]

For $1K, could you not get one Lithium battery and be able to switch between it and the "old" battery's? Or the one Lithium could replace both GC2's and have the same AH's avail?
Seems like it would be just as much power as the two 6v's with a fraction of the weight.

[theoldwizard1]

wildwoodrver wrote:
Do you think it is worth $1,000 to make this upgrade?

Not for that price !

One Lithium (iron) battery costs about $1000 and will last many times longer ! (I am not sure if the capacity is the same as two 6V lead acid deep cycle batteries.)

[MEXICOWANDERER]

It would be fairer to compare Lifeline to Trojan GC batteries and not to what he currently has. Budget golf car batteries.

There is one thing about a Lifeline that no other AGM can touch with a 20 foot pole -- don't mistreat them and they will live far far longer than any other AGM brand. It was only fairly recently on this forum that folks started having the first clues about how to avoid killing absorbed glass mat batteries. From what I've read about 95% of the reports about maintenance killed the AGM's at middle age or even earlier.

Decreasing capacity -- no clue as to condition them -- bad info about recharging and no clue as to how to tell if they were fully recharged.

Mistreat a Lifeline and I guarantee it will live no longer than a Full River or Odyssey battery. Mistreat a Rolls & Surrette flooded battery and it will live no longer than a Trojan or Crown battery.

The key is to get the full capacity out of those .105" thick plates.

And like it or not it's easier to know via instruments when an AGM battery is full.

Come play with my 24 2-volt cells then divide the time needed to recharge an AGM battery. Multiple voltages. It's worth it when the positive plate thickness is .330" that's about a third of an inch thick.

My bank weight would sag a motorhome right down to frame and asphalt yet when a high load is drawn it is obvious the only saving factor is the bulk gross amp hours translated to CCA with a large inverter.

Do you need or want 14 years out of a battery? That's the big question. If the batteries were cycled throughout the year then that skews the rationale even further.

Acid eats things for a living. And 1.300 acid is more corrosive than 1.285 electrolyte. When maintained at close to absolutely full capacity the acid will be more active. And it is skull and crossbones time if an AGM is parked for an extended time while less than full. So the acid is eating...would you rather have a .105" plate for the acid to gnaw on, or a .060" plate which is common even in competitive pricier brands?

I know for a fact that the architecture for the Lifeline GC AGM is the same as it is for the car jar batteries. Golf car batteries here do not have plates any thicker, mats no thicker and they are envelope sealed against sediment chamber shorts. Golf car size exists only because they replace the T105. I do not like being forced to use a series bridge externally if it can be avoided.

What delivers a hotter CCA for microwave oven / inverter use? Two group 31 XLT Lifelines or four Golf Car batteries? Last I checked a golf car battery falls on it's face nearing 500 cca. It's closer to 400 amps.

When a flooded battery is 40% charged, what is the cca reaction compared to full charge? How about an AGM?

Lots of stuff to mull over. One thing for sure the scale of comparison does not have the flooded battery. If a large charger for reduced generator run time enters the picture the scale tilts heavily in favor of the AGM especially the Lifeline.

Make a list. Line down the center. Your style of camping. Positive aspects to port, negative points to starboard.

Check San Diego battery's price for a retail price double check.

[RoyB]

Definitely look into the smart mode charging requirements for the LIFELINE AGM BATTERIES to make sure your present smart mode charging is running the required DC Voltages and Dc currents needed... It may have to be updated as well to support a different smart mode charging scheme.

I'm sure a few of us did chuckle a bit about the WFCO comment... Back in the early 2000's I tried everything I could try to get my WFCO Coverter/charger to go into smart charge modes with no luck... Haven't checked in with the more moderm WFCO converter/chargers.

Roy Ken

[wa8yxm]

I would not go to AGM unless there was an issue with access for maintenance (Watering) or I had to mount them other than "This way up"

now for SOME uses. AGM has advantages. But for RV use. there is nearly never any advantage to them... EXCEPT TO THE SELLERS (MORE PROFIT).