Solar Costs - MPPT vs PWM

[CA_Traveler]

The continued lower price of the larger panels has now dropped the MPPT costs just below PWM for a larger RV solar setup.

SolarBlvd Cynergy 3x$200 250W panels 750W $600
SolarHome Morningstar MPPT 60 controller $472
SolarHome Moriningstar TS-RM-2 remote meter $102
Total $1174

SolarBlvd Cynergy 5x$159 140W panels 700W $795
SolarHome Morningstar PWM 60 controller $206
SolarHome Moriningstar TS-RM-2 remote meter $102
Total $1103

Both sets of panels use about 52 sq feel of roof space and SolarBlvd has 250W panels for $160.

Add 5%+ more MPPT power and likely higher PWM wiring costs and MPPT is taking the lead in lower costs.

Other panels, controllers, etc are also available for both PWM and MPPT.

[KJINTF]

Jimin

I believe you do indeed have the "wrong" idea
The data sheets show exactly the same "Tracking capabilities for the two units
Give MS support a shoot they are very helpful however a bit slow
It is my believe & experience with both that the tracking works great but is NOT designed to properly track multiple panels with different voltages

[CA_Traveler]

Snowman9000 wrote:
So would it be fair to say that $2/watt USD self-installed is the going ballpark price?

Yes, my cost is $1.93/watt, roof space is 52.7 sq/ft and 14.2 watts/sq ft.

I had about $30 in parts not counted above but otherwise all taxes and S&H are included. A hydraulic lug crimper at $36 is not included.

Panel S&H is a big cost item. I diverted 15 additional miles through LA to pick up the panels with no tax and no S&H.

[JiminDenver]

What attracts me to the 60 is that as I understand it is that it can track multiple arrays. That means I could run the two 245w monos AND the 230w poly and not worry about confusing the controller with different voltages. Should I have the wrong idea about this, someone tell me now. Otherwise a 45 for the monos and a Eco-W for the poly will do just fine.

[KJINTF]

TS-MPPT-45 Vs TS-MPPT-60
A bit more than just a 15amp difference
The 45 is a dual phase unit while the 60 is a three phase unit, translate that to a fraction better efficiency. The 60 has an "old" 10baseT IP/Ethernet interface. I use a $20.00 TP-LINK WiFi router with the controller making a simple low cost wireless interface using Solar Guppy's small app

For you guys with the 60 check out the firmware updates on the MS web site STRONGLY suggest you update the "A" version software

[ken_white]

JiminDenver wrote:
...In the end having your needs met and not having to listen to a generator is PRICELESS.

X2...

:B

[JiminDenver]

Snowman, as long as your needs are met, you did good. It's not fair to compare because what's available, location, required features, taxes, etc. all play a part.

My craigslist finds got me 940w of panels for $270, some pay that for a single panel. Winning the auctions for the Eco-Ws meant I saved another $50 off of going to the site. In the end it is less than a dollar a watt for the 720w we run. It's not mounted yet but that's not going to cost much. Had I bought the panels new and had them delivered, bought a TS-MMPT-60 and the remote faceplate so that I can leave the batteries in freezing cold or blistering hot weather, My cost would have been much higher.

In the end having your needs met and not having to listen to a generator is PRICELESS.

[ken_white]

I use an TS MPPT 45 with remote display and also tweak the charge control parameters and update the firmware using a notebook computer and USB-Serial adapter.

I have 3 - 190W ET Solar panels that have a higher Vmp - 36.68V and lower Imp - 5.18A than most panels of the same wattage.

The lower Imp reduces cable losses during the bulk charging cycle when using the MPPT controller.

[Snowman9000]

So would it be fair to say that $2/watt USD self-installed is the going ballpark price? I'm installing 300W with Morningstar PWM (today if the weather holds!). After all the cables, terminals, controller, circuit breakers, ebay China poor man's trimetric, and other hardware, I am going to be around $575.

I know it can be done for less with a $10 controller, no monitor, no fuses or breakers, etc. Certainly in the 400's as RJsfishing did. But overall, $2/watt seems a good ballpark?

[JiminDenver]

The MS-MPPT-60 will likely be my choice for mounting. For now the Eco-W's are just too much fun. Anytime we run the microwave we will pull 50a from the system, probably the coffee pot too.

When in absorb/float the controllers split the charging, each dropping equally until as I said, it's gets well into float. I'll have it all up this weekend so Ill pay attention to it more.

[time2roll]

Correct, no display for my MS-MPPT-60. Have not really needed it.
RS232 to USB connects to a netbook computer for programming. After the initial programming I think I tweaked it a bit only once. It just runs blind at this point and works great.

MSview works on the 45 but the programming is different.

With 675 watts it would take ideal conditions and a low battery to be much above 45 amps. Controller has no issues limiting current to the rating or running at max. Would need to have very low battery and heavy clouds until 11a with sudden clearing to get over 45 amps. Typical use and good sun I am floating by 10a. Other times I am lucky to get 2 hours of sun and the power is needed. I carry no generator.

Not sure I would want to overdrive an Ecoworthy and just let it run.

Big driver to MPPT for me was MC4 plug and play in series. No combiner, no fat wire, no panel fuses, or extra connections. Biggest downside is being cautious with 100 Vdc.

[CA_Traveler]

Several times in the past I've posted comparisons of PWM and MPPT costs and the trend is favoring MPPT from a cost point, for larger RV power - Jim Fully agree cost is only one factor.

My intent for my solar is clear as I purchased my solar equipment, namely the MPPT setup in my original post. During the holidays with my sons help the roof installation will be completed. Stay tuned.

[CA_Traveler]

smkettner wrote:
Flat mounted I would be tempted to use MS-MPPT-45 up to 750 watts. Good point and as I recall you've posted that the 45 would work for you.
5x 140w = 5x 8.4 Isc = 42 amps so 45 PWM should be fine also. I haven't investigated the differences between the 45 and 60 PWM controllers.

Some time back I decided that for me the MS-MPPT-60 was desirable because of the CAT5 and MS View capability. You took as I recall a different route with no remote display and no or limited use of a computer - if that is correct?

Based on what I know it would be possible to use a 2x2 series/parallel array of 250W flat mounted with the MS-MPPT-60. Disclaimer - You can use more than the stated 800W limit with the 60A derated limit but anyone considering this should contact MS.

[BFL13]

Last year for a while I was using two 20a PWM controllers on the one bank and they acted as one bigger controller adding their amps just fine.

This year for a while I had one PWM Solar30 and one MPPT Eco-W on the one bank (both set to 14.8) and they too added their amps just fine.

JiminDenver of course uses dozens at once, no problem 🙂 As far as Bulk or Float, can't say since my Eco doesn't do Absorb, just drops to Float at 14.5 when batts hit 14.8 so that left the Solar30 doing it all at 14.8

Jim can give the play-by-play with two Eco-Ws.

[Salvo]

Interesting. When the system is in absorption (let's say at 14.2V), you're saying all 3 controllers provide charging current? Do you measure each output? What are their ratios?

[JiminDenver]

I use 3 Eco-w's on one bank. Two will drop off when the acceptance rate gets low enough in float. They can also be split up between three banks, very flexible.