stairs

[flathead92]

Who else is over the steps that you have to lift in and out of RV what a joke cant get in untill to drop steps wth is thinking this is a good thing?

[JBarca]

dougrainer wrote:


Sorry, but your cost of OEM versus retail is wrong. Granted, there is a LOWER cost at OEM but the fact remains, that Retail costs are higher for the door fold down. BUT, the OEM for both types will be lower, but the door type is still higher than the standard old style. MOST of the door fold outs have an adjustable bottom leg to meet different uneven patio pads. I have NEVER had a customer complain about the door step type system. Doug

Hi Doug,

Maybe I was misunderstood. I agree that the Solid step may cost more than a good set of older fold-out steps. The price we see at retail or dealer cost differs greatly from at OEM. And you appeared to agree with this.

My main point is labor at the OEM; there is a significant difference at the OEM on labor mounting a Solid step unit (very little labor) compared to an older well-mounted fold-out step. I'm sure you may agree with this.

At the OEM level, profit per unit can be higher selling a camper with a Solid step versus a well-mounted and made older style fold-out step. While the raw material of the step may be higher with the solid step, the offset of labor savings makes it well worth paying more for material than labor.

I'm good with OEM's selling campers to customers who want that style step, but to force it across all floor plans with no other options, and they make more profit by selling it that way, does not sit well. If it is worth more, sell the Solid step as an upgrade. I know that takes more time and inventory on the part of the OEM. Giving the customer options can cause them more loss.

I will also add for the general good of the post, in the last 8 to maybe 12 years; there has been a flood of, in my opinion, very weak fold-out style steps being made. These are not the older style rigid fold-out steps mounted rigidly to the camper. (This stronger set all costs more $$) The same thing invaded the scissors stabilizers with weak, thin metal. I was appalled to see fold-out steps and how the OEM mounted them so weak on new campers. They bend and bounce significantly just walking up them. They are trying to hit a price point on what a new camper buy will bear. Or the OEM is trying to increase profitably. Entry steps should not be one of the places to cut costs that deep.

[ktmrfs]

It isn't just RV storage lots where they can't be pulled down without moving. Same thing when pulling into a Rest stop with trucks on both sides. Seen people pull in, get out of the TV, go back to the trailer and then realize they can't get the steps down

[fj12ryder]

We've had several spots in different storage lots, and all maximize their space by having trailers pretty close together. They are most definitely not spaced far enough apart to get the solid steps lowered. Never seen any that are parked that far apart.

[Cptnvideo]

I'm not familiar with the Glow steps, but if they store outside, it likely requires a modification of the outside of my RV. And why would I want to try something else when I'm perfectly happy with what I have?

[Lantley]

Cptnvideo wrote:
Lantley said, "Experienced campers see the flaws in the steps right away."

Well, I've been a member on this site since 2006 so I think I am "experienced".
I have the Mor-Ryde fold in the door steps. And I wouldn't trade them for fold out steps - period. Mine are solid and it only takes a few seconds to adjust to uneven terrain. Also just a few seconds to clean them before stowing. Both seem to be MAJOR complaints by a few.
Granted, I don't store our RV in a tight storage place. I can see where that could be an issue. On the other hand, if storage space is that tight, I wouldn't want to store my RV there in the first place.

Try the Glow Steps you get the additional stability without the pitfalls of the Mor Ryde
Steps store outside where they belong.
No cleaning or wiping of steps required...ever
Steps adjust and can be used in close quarters.
Rise and run of steps can both be adjusted as required.
Steps don't block the doorway, allowing for access to easily place something in the trailer.

[Cptnvideo]

Lantley said, "Experienced campers see the flaws in the steps right away."

Well, I've been a member on this site since 2006 so I think I am "experienced".
I have the Mor-Ryde fold in the door steps. And I wouldn't trade them for fold out steps - period. Mine are solid and it only takes a few seconds to adjust to uneven terrain. Also just a few seconds to clean them before stowing. Both seem to be MAJOR complaints by a few.
Granted, I don't store our RV in a tight storage place. I can see where that could be an issue. On the other hand, if storage space is that tight, I wouldn't want to store my RV there in the first place.

[Grit_dog]

Well we’ve only owned one camper trailer. Has the 2 steps that fold out from the undercarriage. Seems to work fine. Idk how much taller some of y’all’s trailers are, but tall frame and 16s on 7klb axles and springs, I’d imagine it’s as tall as any TT and most “normal “ size 5vers.
Having had TCs prior to the TH, I can echo the frustration of bringing dirty steps inside the camper. However I understand that’s not the main issue. But this is a case of can’t please all the people all the time.
Fat people will complain the fold out steps are too spongy. OCD people will complain about a little dirt in the camper from the stairs. People who stack their rv like cord wood will complain the nice sturdy stairs don’t fit. People that boondock their big ole campers will complain the stairs aren’t adjustable enough.

So what’s the answer?

[fj12ryder]

dougrainer wrote:
Sorry, but your cost of OEM versus retail is wrong. Granted, there is a LOWER cost at OEM but the fact remains, that Retail costs are higher for the door fold down. BUT, the OEM for both types will be lower, but the door type is still higher than the standard old style. MOST of the door fold outs have an adjustable bottom leg to meet different uneven patio pads. I have NEVER had a customer complain about the door step type system. Doug

You must be dealing with people who have never used them for any length of time. And that adjustable bottom step adjusts the steps only so far, so if the ground is too high, as in a curb, walkway, patio, then you can adjust that bottom step til you're blue in the face and they still don't work.

[Lantley]

NEVER had a customer complain about the door step type system. Doug

If its a first time buyer they won't realize the problem until much later.
Most consumers don't realize the problems until down the road.
Experienced campers see the flaws in the steps right away.
As I mentioned you don't have to be a rocket scientist to realize storing exterior steps inside is a bad idea!
Would you ever do that at home? Do you bring your grill inside your living room,
how about a mat at your front door do you bring that inside for storage?
Why would you bring the steps inside?!

[Lantley]

dougrainer wrote:
The fold up IN the RV type step cost $600
The OLD style fold out steps are $250 to $400. So where and why would some state price as a reason????? The new style are much more stable than regular fold out steps. Doug

Because its not the cost of the steps themselves. It the cost of the stair pocket and the flexibility it gives floorplans not to have to designate a door/stair location when assembling the frame.
The same frame can be used on more floor plans. Door location is not critical because it does not have to match the stair location.
It allows them to mass produce more units in the long run.
For the RV manufactures the new stairs provide an advantage in the assembly process.
That advantage was enough to add the steps to most units!
The manufactures could care less if they are an advantage to the consumer or not.

[dougrainer]

JBarca wrote:

dougrainer wrote:
The fold up IN the RV type step cost $600
The OLD style fold out steps are $250 to $400. So where and why would some state price as a reason????? The new style are much more stable than regular fold out steps. Doug

One possible reason is labor costs at the OEM level. Labor is often one of the highest manufacturing costs of a product.

For the older style fold-out steps, the higher-end camper RV manufacturers integrated a well-mounted set of steps, not the diving board set of steps, -welded part of the step framework to the main frame rails and bolted them to the floor to reduce the diving board effect and for reduced liability of the step unit breaking away from the camper. Then they had to cut the siding skirt for the steps, and some brands even installed a trim skirt bezel around the opening. With more parts and labor involved, the added cost of the product to produce goes up.

With the new fold-down steps (LCI (solids Step) or Mor-Ryde) on the assembly, line labor is significantly reduced. LCI, which now makes many entry doors, has a slightly shorter screen door to create a larger gap at the bottom with added felt on the bottom to allow for the threshold plate the Solid step uses. To install the solid step on the assembly line, drop the mounting plate over the threshold, shoot 4 to 6 screws in, and they are done—no cutouts in the lower siding or door bezel parts. There is no welding to the frame or bolting of the steps to the bottom of the floor. And they can now even sell a doormat to catch the dirt the steps can leave inside when folding up. Make some more profit.

Marketing and management set the retail selling price for retail versus OEM cost. What we see on retail or even at the dealer cost differs greatly from what the OEM pays.

These are just a few thoughts on how the RV manufacturer can save money on installing a quick attaching set of steps and try turning it into a selling feature. The thought possibly being it's new, it is solid, and thinking it should help sell the camper better. But, it should be a choice as we all do not camp or store the camper the same.

In my case, I upgraded the main entry steps to the Torklift Smart Step-Glow Step system. It is solid, still fits under the same hole as the original Hickery Springs fold-out steps, and deals with more terrain issues in remote campsites. They are very good steps and not cheap. Short of a truck camper, they may never come standard on a TT or 5er; they cost too much. I left the front bedroom doors as the fold-out steps. They are quick and easy for the wife to drop down when we stop along the way and need to get in the camper in the parking lot etc.

John

Sorry, but your cost of OEM versus retail is wrong. Granted, there is a LOWER cost at OEM but the fact remains, that Retail costs are higher for the door fold down. BUT, the OEM for both types will be lower, but the door type is still higher than the standard old style. MOST of the door fold outs have an adjustable bottom leg to meet different uneven patio pads. I have NEVER had a customer complain about the door step type system. Doug

[StirCrazy]

Man how this one has taken off, when I bought my new 5th in 2016 (same year these started to be seen once and a blue moon) I thought they would be cool and had them worked into the deal. well 2 months later the stairs still hadn't showen up to be installed due to them not even haveing a proper part number for OEM ordering yet. so this gave me time to think about it and I decided a lot of what people are complaining about today would happen. ie. water, dirt, limited use in tight space and so on. so I went in and got that cancled and another solar panel installed as they were about the same price. back then everyone told me I was crazy and these were so nice... no it looks like I made the right choice.

Steve

[TurnThePage]

They belong in the same dump as the tankless water heaters.

[JBarca]

dougrainer wrote:
The fold up IN the RV type step cost $600
The OLD style fold out steps are $250 to $400. So where and why would some state price as a reason????? The new style are much more stable than regular fold out steps. Doug

One possible reason is labor costs at the OEM level. Labor is often one of the highest manufacturing costs of a product.

For the older style fold-out steps, the higher-end camper RV manufacturers integrated a well-mounted set of steps, not the diving board set of steps, -welded part of the step framework to the main frame rails and bolted them to the floor to reduce the diving board effect and for reduced liability of the step unit breaking away from the camper. Then they had to cut the siding skirt for the steps, and some brands even installed a trim skirt bezel around the opening. With more parts and labor involved, the added cost of the product to produce goes up.

With the new fold-down steps (LCI (solids Step) or Mor-Ryde) on the assembly, line labor is significantly reduced. LCI, which now makes many entry doors, has a slightly shorter screen door to create a larger gap at the bottom with added felt on the bottom to allow for the threshold plate the Solid step uses. To install the solid step on the assembly line, drop the mounting plate over the threshold, shoot 4 to 6 screws in, and they are done—no cutouts in the lower siding or door bezel parts. There is no welding to the frame or bolting of the steps to the bottom of the floor. And they can now even sell a doormat to catch the dirt the steps can leave inside when folding up. Make some more profit.

Marketing and management set the retail selling price for retail versus OEM cost. What we see on retail or even at the dealer cost differs greatly from what the OEM pays.

These are just a few thoughts on how the RV manufacturer can save money on installing a quick attaching set of steps and try turning it into a selling feature. The thought possibly being it's new, it is solid, and thinking it should help sell the camper better. But, it should be a choice as we all do not camp or store the camper the same.

In my case, I upgraded the main entry steps to the Torklift Smart Step-Glow Step system. It is solid, still fits under the same hole as the original Hickery Springs fold-out steps, and deals with more terrain issues in remote campsites. They are very good steps and not cheap. Short of a truck camper, they may never come standard on a TT or 5er; they cost too much. I left the front bedroom doors as the fold-out steps. They are quick and easy for the wife to drop down when we stop along the way and need to get in the camper in the parking lot etc.

John

[dougrainer]

The fold up IN the RV type step cost $600
The OLD style fold out steps are $250 to $400. So where and why would some state price as a reason????? The new style are much more stable than regular fold out steps. Doug