Surge protection INSIDE the camper?

[okwaterdog]

I recently had a problem that cost me my converter, microwave, television, vcr and the sound system. I am lucky the refrigerator and a/c's weren't damaged. Yes I do have a surge protector at the outlet, but the problem was caused by a bad plug on the rv's power cord.

Before I replace everything, wanted to see if there is any type of surge protector that can go between the outlet and the item (for example the microwave)....?? It would have to be small, would fit into the 110 and then the microwave would plug into it.

I'd rather not have this happen again.

[Almot]

SoundGuy wrote:
... regardless of whether it's a portable or hard wire version the best place to wire in an EMS is where the main service cable feeds the trailer's converter input buss bar. That's usually quite easy to do - inside the trailer just locate where the main service cable enters the trailer, cut the cable, and wire in the EMS

Uh-huh... Under the fridge, in a 12" tall, 26" long rabbit hole off the floor. Behind the converter. Sure, easy ;)...

But... - yes, this is the best place.

[Bobbo]

westom wrote:
A protector on the pole will also protect from one anomaly that a hardwired unit will not.

What anomaly will a unit on the pole protect you from that a hard wired unit will not?

[westom]

Optimistic Paranoid wrote:
Can anyone here comment on whether the Hughes Autoformer protects against surges and spikes?

If it does, then all electronics have that best protection. Because galvanic isolation is also inside electronics. The theory is that millimeter gaps between wires with 'block' what three miles of sky cannot. The myth lives on because so many advertising lies promote 'blocking' as effective protection.

Protection starts by first defining the anomaly. Nothing inside will 'block' or 'absorb' this anomaly. This anomaly is a current source. That means voltage will increase as necessary to blow through anything that foolishly tries to 'block' it.

Best protection for each electronics is already inside electronics. Concern is for the anomaly that can overwhelm that protection. Nothing adjacent will 'block' it. Other solutions, well proven by over 100 years of science and experience, can provide that protection. And not all devices, called surge protectors, even claim to do that.

Many other completely different and unrelated anomalies are also called surges. The term is subjective. So even lying can be promoted as truth. Even anomaly, sometimes called surges, must be discussed separately.

This one anomaly took how many paragraphs to only introduce the effective solution? Honesty literally takes that much. And includes numbers.

That galvanic isolation rated for how many volts? A valid recommendation will discuss that and other numbers. Or should be ignored. Galvanic isolation routinely inside electronic appliances can be 1000 and maybe less than 2000 volts.

What protection does a plug-in protector provide? Ignore any recommendation that does not always say so with numbers. It is often inferior to what already exists inside appliances.

[pianotuna]

The latest offering from Hughes includes the same (lousy) surge protection as the top of the line units (ems) from PI and SG i.e. just some MOV. Obviously it does not disconnect from the power when it is low. I'm not sure what the Hughes does for an open neutral which is where ems from PI and SG shine.

The Sola Basic also has no surge, so I added some,and thanks to Mexicowanderer it is top of the line protection.

Make sure the used unit is working and add a dollar store surge protector to it. I suspect that Hughes may not offer repairs to older "2nd hand" units.

[SoundGuy]

Optimistic Paranoid wrote:
Can anyone here comment on whether the Hughes Autoformer protects against surges and spikes? While they are expensive, I was fortunate to get a used one off Craigslist for only $150. I'm sort of under the impression that the transformer serves to isolate the incoming power from the outgoing power.

The newest versions offer limited surge protection, IIRC older models did not. Has nothing to do with the transformer. If I were to invest in a Hughes Autoformer I'd also place a surge protector (not an EMS) before it.

[Optimistic_Para]

Can anyone here comment on whether the Hughes Autoformer protects against surges and spikes? While they are expensive, I was fortunate to get a used one off Craigslist for only $150. I'm sort of under the impression that the transformer serves to isolate the incoming power from the outgoing power. Or at least, the little electronics I self-taught myself back when I was doing sound for some bands suggest that.

If it turns out I'm wrong about that, well, it wouldn't be the first time . . .

[ScottG]

You mention nearby lightening strikes. None of the EMS systems will protect against a very close strike. That much voltage will simply jump the EMS after it destroys it.

[pianotuna]

The OP says that problem was in the plug that is inserted into the surge device. Since the problem is then down stream from the protection--it will not protect at all.

ol Bombero-JC wrote:

pianotuna wrote:


Perhaps the plug for his RV had an open neutral? If that was so then even the top of the line ems devices may not help much.

Maybe I'm missing something...

PI EMS-PT50C - "Open neutral protection: If the source has an open neutral condition, the display will not light, and will not allow power to the RV."

So *how much* - is - "may not help much".. :h

~

[westom]

Tie a knot in the power cable. That recommendation comes with as much integrity as so many other recommendation. Since each anomaly must be defined long before defining a solution. Only few define any potentially destructive anomalies.

Most recommend the Progressive because it addresses common anomalies that can / have cause damage. A protector on the pole will also protect from one anomaly that a hardwired unit will not. Since subject reasoning is sufficient, then no need to say more.

Or start by first discussing what anomaly caused damage - long before trying to cure it.

If that plug-in device claims hardware protection, then post the specification number that defines that protection. Then learn it does not even claim to protect from potentially destructive anomalies. And can sometimes make damage easier.

A useful discussion defines each anomaly separately. And then defines, with numbers, what protects from that anomaly. Or just tie a knot in that power cable.

[okwaterdog]

More info: I am in a Class A, 50amp using a 50amp post and have a Surgeguard model 34750 (which has a digital screen). I always understood this would protect from problems at the post, but obviously in my case did little to prevent a problem on the coach/cord side.

I don't remember exactly what the repairman said he found but might have involved the neutral wire and the cord and surgeguard connection had been bent to store.

I always learn from these comments, but I am leaning to Bobbo's response: "If he has a 50 amp RV and his cord lost connection to the NEUTRAL wire somehow, that is EXACTLY the damage he would see."

Thanks to all, I will investigate getting the EMS installed.

OKWaterdog
ps 2 weeks later I had two lightening strikes to a couple of tall pines less than 20 ft away from the post. Several other campers had damage I had none...so sometimes things work as they should.

[SoundGuy]

neschultz wrote:
A portable EMS will certainly detect an open neutral at the source but not in the plug or cable that’s plugged into it. But a hardwired EMS would.

A portable unit will work exactly the same as a hard wire unit if it's wired in at the same location. There's only a difference if the portable unit is sitting at the post while the hard wire is wired in at the camper.

[wa8yxm]

The answer is both yes and NO. mostly NO.

TO me a SPIKE is a sudden increase in voltage. Some can easily hit 1,000 volts or more. but it only lasts like one cycle... Or less. (1/60th of a second)

These "Spikes" can be clipped easily by a device which is in all those "Surge protector" strips you get at most any hardware or grocery or computer or .. Well darn near everywhere.

A "Surge" again in my dictionary is a much longer over voltage. Like when the power company hired a contractor and I got double (at least) voltage in my house for like 1 minute. That was not fun.. Those el-cheapo surge guard strips sounded like firecrackers on July-4 as the "protective" elements blew up (literally)

Now a Progressive Industries EMS. or a TRC Surge Guard. the top end ones with the LCD display not just indicator lights.. Those do the job on that kind of "Surge" as well.

[neschultz]

ol Bombero-JC wrote:

pianotuna wrote:


Perhaps the plug for his RV had an open neutral? If that was so then even the top of the line ems devices may not help much.

Maybe I'm missing something...

PI EMS-PT50C - "Open neutral protection: If the source has an open neutral condition, the display will not light, and will not allow power to the RV."

So *how much* - is - "may not help much".. :h

~

I think pianotuner was referring to a portable EMS.....a point that makes a good case to use hardwired units and one that I’d never thought of before. A portable EMS will certainly detect an open neutral at the source but not in the plug or cable that’s plugged into it. But a hardwired EMS would.

[SoundGuy]

okwaterdog wrote:
Yes I do have a surge protector at the outlet, but the problem was caused by a bad plug on the rv's power cord.

Before I replace everything, wanted to see if there is any type of surge protector that can go between the outlet and the item (for example the microwave)....??

Perhaps you'd tell us just which model of "surge protector" you have ... if it's truly just a surge protector then your first step would be to replace it with an EMS w/surge protection. Secondly, there's no need for individual surge protectors as you might use in your home. Third, regardless of whether it's a portable or hard wire version the best place to wire in an EMS is where the main service cable feeds the trailer's converter input buss bar. That's usually quite easy to do - inside the trailer just locate where the main service cable enters the trailer, cut the cable, and wire in the EMS at this location - in my current rig that happened to be under the sofa. If the unit you've chosen is a portable wire on matching connectors to the cut cable ends so you can simply plug the unit in or remove it later with ease. If it's a hard wire unit also add matching connectors to the unit itself, effectively making it a portable unit. Plugged in rather than hard wired in, it too can easily be removed at any time.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

pianotuna wrote:


Perhaps the plug for his RV had an open neutral? If that was so then even the top of the line ems devices may not help much.

Maybe I'm missing something...

PI EMS-PT50C - "Open neutral protection: If the source has an open neutral condition, the display will not light, and will not allow power to the RV."

So *how much* - is - "may not help much".. :h

~