Tariffs On Solar Panel Imports Announced

[MEXICOWANDERER]

But implementation date not firm...but it will be soon.

Please. No political comments which do not do a damned bit of good.

25% price increase on a thousand dollars of panels is not chickenfeed.

Other electronics are also affected.

Time to do your Christmas Stocking Stuffer shopping early.

Amplifications not solicited or desired...

Good buys and bargains are solicited....

Any snide remarks please kill the thread...

[Ed_Gee]

There are US manufacturers of high quality solar panels, Zamp Solar, for one. Buy American. They are competitive......even more so with tariffs in place.

[free_radical]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
I used to buy Snap On and Mac tools because they were in fact superior to anything made overseas. The strength and durability made a joke out of Japanese and Chinese hand tools. When HARBOR FREIGHT SALVAGE had a picture of a tugboat on the cover of a newsprint ad, socket sets cost three dollars and were worth half that. Almost 40-years ago.

Price a Snap On 3/8" flex ratchet today ($150.00). Is it 10x superior to Harbor Freight's best flex ratchet? Maybe the feel in my hands has badly degraded.

My business, PATECO, had to offer compelling service for the price charged for testing batteries. My big challenge was Southern California Edison. By working 16 hours a day and automating testing using data acquisition boards, home made equipment and rebuilding alternators while tests were being conducted I made good money.

But today's execs, even small business, want to sit on their ass and charge Monte Carlo prices. Most of them get away with it. Thank god I used my remaining income to rathole it in a bus and equipment.

That Hippie of BFL13's cloudy skies, could grow superior tasting beautiful carrots and justify organic high prices. On the other hand I have long lost the financial ability to pay five dollars for a cup of coffee that to me needs to be hot watered down 50% in order to be drinkable.

Americans have utterly lost perspective. Especially the 25-40 year olds. A thousand dollars for a play screen telephone? Sixty grand for a sedan? The dividing line is education. If I lost 40 years off my age, I probably could earn 90 - 130 thousand a year working my way to senior engineer.

What are we in, some kind of a dystopian movie where class divisions mean luxury or the slums? This is a bubble and it isn't a sustainable bubble. Too many years of business schooling allow me to see the great stretching between the two opposites. In itself not a worry. Projecting it causes the worry -- the stretch is accelerating.

It well may be it is impossible for the USA to regain the ability to mine coal, make steel, and affordable automobiles. Hell, Westinghouse seems to be the only company with the ability to manufacture large electric grid transformers. Can we build ships? No. We couldn't even keep Transamerica De La Valle. But Germany has Pielstik. What happened?

Gimmee gimmee. Mine Not yours! If I can't make a squatzillion dollars on my investment then screw it. It's really scary.

All I want are some solar panels. Geezo.

I blame Tramps tarifs aka TAX..affects everyone..

Around begining of this year Canadian Tire had 100 W panels for 199$
Today they charge 599$ for the same thing..
stores just pass the cost of doing busines onto customers..
Have you tried ordering straight from China?
Their Alibaba is something like Amazon..

[Yosemite_Sam1]

ppine wrote:
We can't out compete every other country on every product. We have a world economy and should export what we are good at. Let the market decide. We have never been competitive in solar panel manufacturing compared to the Chinese.

Once you start tariff wars, it just guarantees that costs to consumers are going up.

Yup, you are exactly right. It’s called the “unique competitive advantage” of nations.

Germany is the best model. They cannot compete anymore in cheap widgets, so they focus on high quality precision items. They design their educational system in parallel tracks of college bound engineers and skills based trades.

We can do the same in high technology and alternative fuel except the political leadership wants to pander to the vote rich extractive and carbon-based sunsetting industries.

[ppine]

We can't out compete every other country on every product. We have a world economy and should export what we are good at. Let the market decide. We have never been competitive in solar panel manufacturing compared to the Chinese.

Once you start tariff wars, it just guarantees that costs to consumers are going up.

[Lwiddis]

“Amplifications not solicited or desired.”

Then don’t post? Bring up a topic and attempt to limit its discussion? That’s controlling.

[Yosemite_Sam1]

2edgesword wrote:
This question is asked by someone that knows nothing about solar panels. Does the 25% tariff bring the price of Chinese made solar panels anywhere near the pricing of solar panels made in the US?

My understanding is that the purpose of tariffs is to make domestic solar panels more price competitive which in theory is suppose to decrease the demand for solar panels made in China and in effect punishes the Chinese for unfair trade practices. A secondary affect is increasing cost of solar panels to U.S. consumers but that cost gets offset in the general economy via keeping dollars (labor) previously going to China in the U.S.

How anyone can actually calculate the net impact of tariffs to demonstrate that they are a net benefit to the country is way above my paygrade. The easier argument is the tariff went into affect and my price for solar panels went up, tariffs are not good.

The answer is no.

It only make the imported panel more expensive.

The local panels will not be produced more cheaply because of the tariff. And they won't want to suffer the loss to bring prices down nor cut into their profit.

No or low tariff world is supposed to work like this:

Me Chinese produce cheap panels, America buys.

We Americans produce cheap and a lot of beans, Chinese buy.

Some idiot in government says, we put tariff on panels so we get more taxes.

Results:

1. Chinese in retaliation because they can't sell the now expensive panels stop don't buying beans from us and go to Brazil instead.

2, American farmers now have tons and tons of rotting beans and you and me are forced to buy expensive panels.

The sad part is that it was us Americans who arm-twisted every country in the world to remove or lower tariff barriers so we can sell more cars, computers, machineries and widgets -- considered high-value added (higher profit items) and we'll buy low-value raw materials, steel, etc and make them into cars that we can sell back to them for continued American prosperity forever and ever (''til they found out they can do it too and cheaper).

[MEXICOWANDERER]

I used to buy Snap On and Mac tools because they were in fact superior to anything made overseas. The strength and durability made a joke out of Japanese and Chinese hand tools. When HARBOR FREIGHT SALVAGE had a picture of a tugboat on the cover of a newsprint ad, socket sets cost three dollars and were worth half that. Almost 40-years ago.

Price a Snap On 3/8" flex ratchet today ($150.00). Is it 10x superior to Harbor Freight's best flex ratchet? Maybe the feel in my hands has badly degraded.

My business, PATECO, had to offer compelling service for the price charged for testing batteries. My big challenge was Southern California Edison. By working 16 hours a day and automating testing using data acquisition boards, home made equipment and rebuilding alternators while tests were being conducted I made good money.

But today's execs, even small business, want to sit on their ass and charge Monte Carlo prices. Most of them get away with it. Thank god I used my remaining income to rathole it in a bus and equipment.

That Hippie of BFL13's cloudy skies, could grow superior tasting beautiful carrots and justify organic high prices. On the other hand I have long lost the financial ability to pay five dollars for a cup of coffee that to me needs to be hot watered down 50% in order to be drinkable.

Americans have utterly lost perspective. Especially the 25-40 year olds. A thousand dollars for a play screen telephone? Sixty grand for a sedan? The dividing line is education. If I lost 40 years off my age, I probably could earn 90 - 130 thousand a year working my way to senior engineer.

What are we in, some kind of a dystopian movie where class divisions mean luxury or the slums? This is a bubble and it isn't a sustainable bubble. Too many years of business schooling allow me to see the great stretching between the two opposites. In itself not a worry. Projecting it causes the worry -- the stretch is accelerating.

It well may be it is impossible for the USA to regain the ability to mine coal, make steel, and affordable automobiles. Hell, Westinghouse seems to be the only company with the ability to manufacture large electric grid transformers. Can we build ships? No. We couldn't even keep Transamerica De La Valle. But Germany has Pielstik. What happened?

Gimmee gimmee. Mine Not yours! If I can't make a squatzillion dollars on my investment then screw it. It's really scary.

All I want are some solar panels. Geezo.

[Almot]

BFL13 wrote:

... some hippy who can't grow carrots at the "global price" for carrots, and make money. He can go find something else to do that does make money.

This is an idealized picture. Other than cutting trees in BC or digging oil in Alberta and selling all this to China, there isn't much one can do in Canadian resource economy. Our farmers and manufacturers can't grow or manufacture anything to make money at "global" (i.e., 3rd world) prices. Unless he is willing to work for LESS than Chinese, - because if he works for the same $2/hr, he won't benefit from exporting to the rest of the world like China does.

Back to the subject - kind of. Massive and well organized subsidies by Chinese govt was one of the factors in successful elimination of the competition in solar manufacturing. Political bureau so decided, orders were given, funds allocated. Planned and executed act.

[Almot]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Comments about the Solar Blvd Kit, below? Price includes shipping...

https://www.solarblvd.com/products/12-volt-360-watt-mono-solar-panel-kit-with-free-shipping/

Replace controller, replace brackets. Cable may or may not be long enough, depending on your install. The only sure thing is 360W array and Y-splitters, this brings the cost to $1.05 per watt. Reasonable, not awfully cheap.

If (IF) controller has voltage adjustments and temp comp, and you are really broke, - give it a chance, maybe it won't die on you within a year or two.

[timmac]

BFL13 wrote:


Yep, they have your number. That big M painted on your forehead they see when you walk in the store (for "Mark") is a giveaway. 🙂

The trouble is, everybody is doing that. "Buy Local" is the mantra. You are supposed to pay extra for some carrots at the local market instead of buying carrots at WalMart. This is because some hippy decided to take up growing carrots in his back yard, and sell them in the market.

Sorry, I am not working for some hippy who can't grow carrots at the "global price" for carrots, and make money. He can go find something else to do that does make money.

Yea your Right, we should all work for $2 a hour and no health care so we can buy cheap stuff and food to match 3rd world cost, **** I am wrong..


:R

[BFL13]

timmac wrote:

BFL13 wrote:

timmac wrote:

ppine wrote:
This is an example of the worst kind of government intervention. Making desirable products that produce clean energy more expensive. Beyond stupid.

No the whole idea is to make it in America and keep it American made..

:B

AFAIK, it is about "Congress Critters" getting money from American factory owners. Congress then passes laws that let those factory owners charge crazy high prices to American consumers.

For instance, a few years back, a Canadian company broke into the American peanut butter market and was making money at it. Suddenly, the US government stepped in and shut that down with big tariffs.

Turned out that American peanut butter makers are required by American law to use American peanuts, which were going for $10/unit.

The Canadian company was buying Argentine peanuts at the "world price" of $4/unit, so it easily was able to charge less in the American grocery stores for their peanut butter.

Result was that Americans, thanks to their Congress Critters, had to keep paying $10 instead of $4 (relatively). Of course Congress didn't care what Joe Voter had to pay at the store. They wanted that money from that American peanut farmer's organization.

Then the Congress Critters whip up Americans to be patriotic and "Buy American". So they go out and fork over $10 for a $4 item, and think they are being good citizens, when actually they are being ripped off. (by other Americans) 😞

Well your price there is way off the chart and besides I would pay more for it to be AMERICAN made anyways like it should be...

Yep, they have your number. That big M painted on your forehead they see when you walk in the store (for "Mark") is a giveaway. 🙂

The trouble is, everybody is doing that. "Buy Local" is the mantra. You are supposed to pay extra for some carrots at the local market instead of buying carrots at WalMart. This is because some hippy decided to take up growing carrots in his back yard, and sell them in the market.

Sorry, I am not working for some hippy who can't grow carrots at the "global price" for carrots, and make money. He can go find something else to do that does make money.

[red31]

what's the chicken tax have to do with me being able to buy a mini truck? LBJ!

The Chicken Tax is a 25 percent tariff on light trucks (and originally on potato starch, dextrin, and brandy) imposed in 1964 by the United States under President Lyndon B. Johnson in response to tariffs placed by France and West Germany on importation of U.S. chicken.

[timmac]

BFL13 wrote:

timmac wrote:

ppine wrote:
This is an example of the worst kind of government intervention. Making desirable products that produce clean energy more expensive. Beyond stupid.

No the whole idea is to make it in America and keep it American made..

:B

AFAIK, it is about "Congress Critters" getting money from American factory owners. Congress then passes laws that let those factory owners charge crazy high prices to American consumers.

For instance, a few years back, a Canadian company broke into the American peanut butter market and was making money at it. Suddenly, the US government stepped in and shut that down with big tariffs.

Turned out that American peanut butter makers are required by American law to use American peanuts, which were going for $10/unit.

The Canadian company was buying Argentine peanuts at the "world price" of $4/unit, so it easily was able to charge less in the American grocery stores for their peanut butter.

Result was that Americans, thanks to their Congress Critters, had to keep paying $10 instead of $4 (relatively). Of course Congress didn't care what Joe Voter had to pay at the store. They wanted that money from that American peanut farmer's organization.

Then the Congress Critters whip up Americans to be patriotic and "Buy American". So they go out and fork over $10 for a $4 item, and think they are being good citizens, when actually they are being ripped off. (by other Americans) 😞

Well your price there is way off the chart and besides I would pay more for it to be AMERICAN made anyways like it should be...

[BFL13]

timmac wrote:

ppine wrote:
This is an example of the worst kind of government intervention. Making desirable products that produce clean energy more expensive. Beyond stupid.

No the whole idea is to make it in America and keep it American made..

:B

AFAIK, it is about "Congress Critters" getting money from American factory owners. Congress then passes laws that let those factory owners charge crazy high prices to American consumers.

For instance, a few years back, a Canadian company broke into the American peanut butter market and was making money at it. Suddenly, the US government stepped in and shut that down with big tariffs.

Turned out that American peanut butter makers are required by American law to use American peanuts, which were going for $10/unit.

The Canadian company was buying Argentine peanuts at the "world price" of $4/unit, so it easily was able to charge less in the American grocery stores for their peanut butter.

Result was that Americans, thanks to their Congress Critters, had to keep paying $10 instead of $4 (relatively). Of course Congress didn't care what Joe Voter had to pay at the store. They wanted that money from that American peanut farmer's organization.

Then the Congress Critters whip up Americans to be patriotic and "Buy American". So they go out and fork over $10 for a $4 item, and think they are being good citizens, when actually they are being ripped off. (by other Americans) 😞

[bpounds]

These tariffs are no surprise to the industry. The Solar Blvd tech and I discussed this a couple of months ago when I called them. The industry was already sweating it, the uncertainty of it. Should they buy inventory? Prices quoted were sometimes only good for 24 hrs, because no one knew what tomorrow would bring. I jumped on buying my system because I felt prices would go up if I waited. That remains to be seen, but it was my gamble at the time.

I am clueless really as to how the tariffs are collected. But I would assume that tariffs are calculated based on the country of origin and the purchasing country destination. It shouldn't matter what ports, or how many ports, the products may pass through, as long as the product does not become inventory in one of those ports. So I don't see how panels from China, shipped to Mexico, would be subject to a US tariff simply because a freight forwarder moved them through Los Angeles. I don't think it works that way, but as I said, clueless.