The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread

[pritch272]

8/1/2010 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: Champion Inverter and Remote Gens Promo on CPE's web site)

3/22/2011 edit: Thread renamed ...
Renamed from: Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread

3/23/2011 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: (Un)Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread

Inverter Available August 2010



Remote Available July 2010

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:


The statement you own the Kipor KGE2000i and it being Chinese built and as bullet proof as they come. Question. Does not the Kipor 2000i have 'totally different Tech' than, say, the Champion 2000i? Totally different in design from the module to the cooling and as close to the Honda as one can get? Can you discuss this in class today? For now,

Floyd

The Kipor KGE2000i is the only Chinese generator that I know of that has a design similar to the Honda. Initially, it is said Kipor cloned much of Honda's features only to receive a storm of lawsuits from Honda that would have kept it from being sold in markets where patent infringement is not allowed. The US is one of those countries that go after pirated goods, copyright and patent violations from Chinese vendors. Thus, sales in the US market would be zero.

Kipor sells the generators it builds under several different labels. All Power is the most prominent. Generac uses a Kipor digital and CPE sells a 1,000 watt Kipor through Canadian Tire with a CPE logo.

The lawsuits were never brought to court. Rather a licensing agreement was negotiated between Kipor and Honda that allowed Kipor to keep some of the design features from the Honda. But, this in no way makes them equal.

You frequently ask about the module. Virtually all of the modern digital units share a common method of generating the sine wave from a 3-phase high frequency alternator that is rectified to DC. It is sort of like the common technology of all TV sets, DVD units, hard drives, computers, etc. There are many identical components used, but the methods by which those components are interconnected differ. The use of PLC's and true microprocessors allows an almost unlimited variety of software programs to be incorporated. The same microprocessor or PLC may be used in many digital inverter modules.

What caused problems is when competing designs attempt to reduce manufacturing cost to hopefully undercut another product's sales. This may result in components that are of a higher tolerance, less mass (likethe heat sink), smaller gauge wiring, bulk purchasing of untested components or anything else that can lessen the "overhead" for making the product.

I honestly do not believe the product from CPE falls into any of the above no-no's. It is a well constructed unit with liberal use of metals, heavy plastics and wiring. The fact that it is an 80cc engine and produces 300 watts less power than my KGE2000i but weighs more is a testament to it's ruggedness.

There have been some CPE2000i failures. That is expected. But nothing on the order of a meltdown. According to CPE's lead Tech Service Engineer returns have been minimal. I trust him and do not believe he would give me any false figures.

As I stated earlier, I know that the overall design of the 2000i was from scratch and not another over-branded unit. It is understood that not all parts were actually built by CPE - this would require a foundry and casting facility. But, again, I do know that CPE provides design specifications for parts it receives from outside vendors that can be significantly different than off-the-shelf generic components commonly used in many other Chinese generators. Evidence of this is the CPE logo stamped or cast into the part.

I know little of the source for the module. I believe I said earlier that it is possible that it may be shared. That was only a guess. But, if it is shared, the actual specifications of the CPE module may be different than it's first cousins. Again, I know CPE does NOT just pick any apple from the orchard.

Yes, I am a CPE Cheerleader. Why? Well, because they have consistently impressed me with quality service, support, and equipment design. To this day they are the ONLY manufacturer/wholesaler of Chinese generators that has a program in place to identify weakness' in the product and make design changes. The new Category 5 synchronous remote control genny is the Cadalliac of them all and ironically has many of the features that YOU once wanted incorporated into a generator in place. CPE actually listens to what we (RV owners) say and want.

No one knows what the future of the 2000i will really be. The design could be improved or discontinued with something else. We see that every day with other products. But, unlike here-today and gone-tomorrow brands I feel comfortable in saying that CPE will have parts and support available for the 2000i for many years into the future. I'm not at all sure I can say that about other Chinese brands.

I have no connection with CPE other than communication. I owe them nothing. I just believe they market a well designed and quality product.

Is the 2000i "perfect"? Quite frankly, no. I do not believe it should have been introduced as a 2000, which is why I emphasize in what I write that it is a 1600 and NOT equal to a Honda 2000. If 1600 watts is enough to do the job you want done then it is one heck of a buy - even at $699.00 retail. If you need 2,000 watts - it is NOT a good buy even at the $499.00 introductory price.

It is what it is. It is not a Honda or Kipor.

BTW - welcome back.

[MrRchitty]

Good point. So, do we change the name?

[MrWizard]

The caption of this thread is "Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread" The word 'Official' denotes authorized. I wonder by who?

OFFICIAL as in the main thread on this forum to make comments and questions about this generator

NOT authorized by anybody else from anyplace else and NOT authorized by champion

[Barfnick]

I found these at the Sam's Club in Green Bay. Still $499.00 Their website is useless for finding these things and the only way to be sure if they have them is to stop at your local Sam's and look for yourself.

I bought two of the 4 they had. I added oil and gas to them and they fired right up. Three pulls on the first one and two on the second one. I let them run for about and hour with a 1500w heater plugged into one and two 500w halogen lights plugged into the other. They never missed a beat. A slight burp every once in a while, but every inverter generator I have been around did that every once in a while.

They are not as quiet as the Honda EU3000i that I have experience with, but way quieter than the Honda, Generac, and Sportsman conventional generators I have been around. A nice happy medium.

For the price, they purr:p

I will not get to really check them out until I head up to the cabin in a few weeks. They will get a pretty good workout up there and should get 20 hours or so run time that weekend.

It is still too cold for the wife and kids to go camping yet, so that will be another month or better. Can't wait for summer when I can try out the AC on them:)

So far so good.

[Old___Slow]

Well Prof,

I opened my eyes again today happy for the opportunity the good folks at Affinity have freely given all, to be on this forum thread. Will try to stay on subject.
Your last word, 'commentary' Once there was a room full of those kind of books staring me in the face. I didn't know whether to hang with the soothe sayers or the prophets of doom, so all the books were given to others. Then one day your class room appeared. Professor95 on the door got my attention. The subject was, yes, ground looping, something like that. I said, well, I know something about those, from my days of growing up in 'tail draggers' (old time flying machines) Anyway it's agreed, the portable gen should not be grounded. Even standing in water, grab either wire agoin' or acomin' no harn done. Like the little bird on the high wire. Something like that.

The caption of this thread is "Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread" The word 'Official' denotes authorized. I wonder by who?

The statement you own the Kipor KGE2000i and it being Chinese built and as bullet proof as they come. Question. Does not the Kipor 2000i have 'totally different Tech' than, say, the Champion 2000i? Totally different in design from the module to the cooling and as close to the Honda as one can get? Can you discuss this in class today? For now,

Floyd

[tvman44]

When I used to work in the instrument shop at the local university we would get a call that the brand new piece of equipment that was received was not working correctly. They would swear it was supposed
to work this way or that. After checking out every thing we would ask for the operating manual and sit down and read it only to find out no way would it do what they said, then we had to teach them how to use it. After getting burned with a couple of these we would ask for the operating manual and read it to see if it really was supposed to do that. We had a sign made to hang in our shop "When all else fails, read the instructions".

MrRchitty wrote:

professor95 wrote:

MrRchitty wrote:
O & S,

I believe you requested photos of the inverter on the Champ. I looked back, remembering the Professor posted photos, however, he never comes out and says that they are those of the Champ's. Looking at the photos and looking under the hood of the Champ, it appears they are from the Champ.

Go back to the posting I made on this thread dated 11/06/10. You will find photos of most everything, including the module, that are inside the 2000i. This was my initial "skinning".

You can also find the complete owner's manual online here which includes the wiring or interconnect diagram for the module on page 24 (in the manual - not the pdf page.)

I would strongly encourage anyone that really wants to know about this inverter generator to look back at my "skinning" photos and read the owner's manual for the product. Even the warnings that are all over the first few pages contain information helpful in understanding what the generator is and what it is for.

Link for skinning

Ok, my error. Should not have said "never". I remember seeing the photos and I stopped at the first set going back. I know Floyd was asking for a set.

In your archive of photos, do you have something which represents the PDCO on the synchronous and/or the Champ Inverter scoped?

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:

In my neck of the woods, availability. To purchase would require ordering on the Net @ $700

Future parts and service are only through CPE. Parts are not stocked through service centers. CPE does not show a retail listing of parts for after the ending of warranty purchase.

The unit as pictured in various posts show the module with a large heat sink. Trasnformers on the same board. Now, all products and services etc. are subject to market forces. Honda and Yamaha have withstood the test of time. Several things about these units stand out. Sound level. Electronics. They have different technology in the module. The H/Y have a cool operating module. The picture left recently shows the capacitors totally inclosed on the Honda. The Champion capacitors on the Champion are the open top crimped style just like the ones on many cheap motherboards I have used in the past that don't stand the test of time and they will leak and smoke. Perhaps this is what happend to MrRchitty failed Champion 20001 that smoked and was returned. Only an opinion. Another opinion. The Chinese Inverters as a whole are not having a good success rate. Names and models, here today, gone tomorrow. Big names too!

As for the Champion 2000i, time will soon tell if heat will or will not destroy the capacitors. ~ The price point might be to high. ~ Parts availability after warranty. The sine wave pattern and possible conflict with some Converter/chargers. For now.

Floyd

Floyd,
Yes, the $700 price is certainly less attractive than the $500 we are seeing through Sam's. Unfortunately, $700 seems to be the base retail price.

I do not agree that all Chinese inverter generators are not having a good success rate. My Kipor KGE2000i is a Chinese generator that is as bullet proof as they come. The CPE 2000i (twins) I own have been pushed to extreme power limits. As an owner, rather than an observer as you are, I feel I have a better handle on the overall construction and performance.

You know, you have had a grudge against CPE for a long time. I don't know exactly why, but I can definitely support my statement if necessary. I know you hold a similar grudge against Onan and Duropower. It doesn't make much difference what is posted, you find a way to twist it so that it turns out negative. You should have gone into politics, you would make a darn good politician. 🙂

Now out of the clear blue sky you seem to be questioning the future of Champion Power Equipment and insinuate they they will go out of business. Of all the companies marketing power equipment built in China, I would say that CPE is the most stable. Reports I receive indicate continued high product sales and growth. The building facility has recently been expanded and additional personnel in engineering, sales and tech support have been hired. None of this indicates CPE is a company ready to go broke.

Comparing the electrolytic capacitors on a no name Chinese computer mother board to the ones in the CPE inverter module is insane. Do you even know how an electrolytic capacitor functions or is built? The major risk to them is puncture of the dielectric by over voltage. The capacitors in the CPE module are rated for 400 volts - I doubt that they will "explode" or "smoke". As for your statement about "crimped" tops - another totally off the wall observation that is absolutely wrong.

Yes, we will find out more about heat this summer when temperatures reach 100 degrees. But, since I own one (which you do not) and disassembled it to study how it is made, I determined that the ducted engine cooling, air flow across the module and the extremely large fined heat sink are extremely well designed for cooling and doubt that there will be any severe heat related problems.

I strongly urge you to take the chip off your shoulder with whatever it is that has you so negative toward CPE. Comments and opinions should be based on factual information, not what you think about an employee at CPE.

This thread was started specifically for the CPE2000i, not the ETQ, Kipor, Honeywell, etc. 2000i owners have posted a significant amount of first-hand and knowledgeable information. Since you are not an owner and have not tested or disassembled these units your comments and opinions are of little value. Readers that want to learn about the CPE2000i are asking questions - not jumping to conclusions and consistently posting negative commentary.

I do not believe I am alone in my feelings toward your consistently negative, technically unsupported and twisted commentary.

[Old___Slow]

JConatser wrote:

Old & Slow wrote:
IMHO, IF, CPE is hanging their hat on the Champion 2000i they won't be here long. Again, just IMHO.

Would you please list whatever facts or pieces of info you have seen that has caused you to arrive at this opinion?

JConatser (James)

I consider your post worthy of a reply. You were the one that sparked my interest in trying to understand something about single and three phase current. The post showing the SEP that included the red and black wire in diagram. I had always wondered what the diffecence to be in single and three phase but had not follow through to find the answer. Yes, I had no knowledge of the fundamental form of electrical energy. The sine wave. Center tape windings. Pure sine wave converters. Modified sine wave converters. Square sine wave converters. Wow, this list has kept me busy. Are you the one to blame or credit for my search for more understanding? Well, I would give you a Gold Star for credit without doubt. You have made sparks fly. Thank you.

Now Prof'

You are our leader in kind. The recent post states, I must have a TOTAL lack of understanding of what has been posted and explined about this generator (the Champion 2000i) and I agree. This simple explanation might cover the "IMHO" post.

About the Champion 2000i,

In my neck of the woods, availability. To purchase would require ordering on the Net @ $700

Future parts and service are only through CPE. Parts are not stocked through service centers. CPE does not show a retail listing of parts for after the ending of warranty purchase.

The unit as pictured in various posts show the module with a large heat sink. Trasnformers on the same board. Now, all products and services etc. are subject to market forces. Honda and Yamaha have withstood the test of time. Several things about these units stand out. Sound level. Electronics. They have different technology in the module. The H/Y have a cool operating module. The picture left recently shows the capacitors totally inclosed on the Honda. The Champion capacitors on the Champion are the open top crimped style just like the ones on many cheap motherboards I have used in the past that don't stand the test of time and they will leak and smoke. Perhaps this is what happend to MrRchitty failed Champion 20001 that smoked and was returned. Only an opinion. Another opinion. The Chinese Inverters as a whole are not having a good success rate. Names and models, here today, gone tomorrow. Big names too!

As for the Champion 2000i, time will soon tell if heat will or will not destroy the capacitors. ~ The price point might be to high. ~ Parts availability after warranty. The sine wave pattern and possible conflict with some Converter/chargers. For now.

Floyd

[JConatser]

professor95 wrote:
... I would strongly encourage anyone that ... wants to know about ... INSERT PRODUCT NAME ... to read the owner's manual for the product.

Hey Prof, I trust you don't mind me taking a little liberty with your quote. 🙂

I can't tell you the number of times I've made a service call in a lab to work on a reported problem and wind up "fixing" it by pulling out the User's Manual and showing the customer the page that describes the correct way to operate the equipment and keep the problem that they're seeing from happening.

I don't know whether this failure to do something so elementary is something that afflicts just Americans, or if it's something that afflicts all of mankind. At least in my experience, it does seem to be pretty pervasive, however.

[MrRchitty]

professor95 wrote:

MrRchitty wrote:
O & S,

I believe you requested photos of the inverter on the Champ. I looked back, remembering the Professor posted photos, however, he never comes out and says that they are those of the Champ's. Looking at the photos and looking under the hood of the Champ, it appears they are from the Champ.

Go back to the posting I made on this thread dated 11/06/10. You will find photos of most everything, including the module, that are inside the 2000i. This was my initial "skinning".

You can also find the complete owner's manual online here which includes the wiring or interconnect diagram for the module on page 24 (in the manual - not the pdf page.)

I would strongly encourage anyone that really wants to know about this inverter generator to look back at my "skinning" photos and read the owner's manual for the product. Even the warnings that are all over the first few pages contain information helpful in understanding what the generator is and what it is for.

Link for skinning

Ok, my error. Should not have said "never". I remember seeing the photos and I stopped at the first set going back. I know Floyd was asking for a set.

In your archive of photos, do you have something which represents the PDCO on the synchronous and/or the Champ Inverter scoped?

[Old___Slow]

curt12914 wrote:

So, if you have two Honda's and are happy with them and have no intention of purchasing a CPE 2000i why are you here?

Is your intent to undermine the 2000i and CPE or is there some other agenda that I am not aware of?

I'm here because I am interested in generators. I've spent thousands over the years making mistakes (I have 3 mistakes in my cellar!) I hope I can help others from making the same mistakes.

I have often recommended the Champion 3500 generator, both on here and in person, as a low cost alternative to expensive inverter generators. The Champion is quieter than most open frame generators, inepensive, has an RV plug, but it's biggest attraction is that it doesn't break the bank!

Differirng opinions is what makes this forum great. ...and I certainly don't take it personally.

A good friend of mine bought a Champion, based on my recommendation. He has had relatively good luck with it.

The success of the 3500 was not because of their low price. It was because of the reputation CPE has earned for a quality product, excellent tech support, continued service and parts availability.

While I agree somewhat with your statement, my experience is that most people buy the 3500 watt Champion because they are inexpensive. I have seen many posts where people have stated that they won't put much money into repairs, since they can buy a replacement for $299 right now and a few years ago, some were buying them for $199.

Established companies are constantly introducing new, unproven equipment. Truck engines, suspensions, transmissions, ECM units, etc. We accept them because we have confidence in the engineering and commitment to quality a company offers - not how long a design has been on the market.

Again I agree somewhat, but companies come and go, even companies with good products and good reputations. Glendale (Titanium) and Holiday Rambler are a couple well respected RV companies that didn't make it through tough times. HR was lucky enough to be brought back by Navistar, but Glendale closed it's doors.

What happens if Champion doesn't survive? Where will anyone buy replacement parts. The same could happen to Honda or Yamaha, but they are old companies and more likely to make it. Even if they didn't, they are so popular, I would expect some other company to buy the rights to make replacement parts.

Yes, the Honda is a proven product. No question about it. But that does not make other products inferior.

IMHO, the Champion hasn't been around long enough to know if they are compatable in quality to Honda / Yamaha.

That is one of the reasons I chose a Volvo HDT. Now there is something with a proven performance record. I think everyone should own one.

Ok, we disagree again.

We have all brands of HDT trucks at work. The older Volvo HDT's were OK, but the newer HDT's with a Volvo (or Mercedes) engine, have a terrible reputation. Since the Volvo / Mack "marriage", their quality has gone downhill in a big way.

I guess that's another argument for another thread...

And by the way,

MrWizard wrote:
and champion has documented proff on this forum of excellent customer service and parts availability

My buddy had a carb problem with his Champion and Champion was willing to help him. Unfortunately, finding someone locally that would work on it was not so easy. He finally did, but it was a small individually owned shop where the guy has a "real job" and does small engine work evenings and weekends.

If the problem had been in the generator instead of the engine, I doubt he could have found someone in our rural area, to work on it.

I'm sure if it were a Honda or Yamaha, that wouldn't have been the case.

IIRC sams club carries the inverter model for $499, and has been posted several times

It has also been posted several times that many Sam's Clubs aren't carrying them. I believe someone said (earlier in this thread) there were none (at Sam's Club) available in the state of California.

The ohter problem with Sam's Club is they often offer an item for a short time and never stock the item again. Time will tell if that's the case with the Champion inverter.

Since Cabelas offered the 3500 for so long (and still offers it), I'm surprised they haven't offered the 2000 inverter.

What makes this thread great is the fact that we all enjoy the privilege to contribute in a forum with many different opinions.
I just went through the thread and if I didn't miss one, 18 buyers of the Champion 2000i have contributed. Each with a little difference of opinion. Some good, some not so good, several were returned. For all these buyers we hope for the best that Champion will be around to supply parts and service. Summer is coming and we shall see how they do with the heat??

[professor95]

MrRchitty wrote:
O & S,

I believe you requested photos of the inverter on the Champ. I looked back, remembering the Professor posted photos, however, he never comes out and says that they are those of the Champ's. Looking at the photos and looking under the hood of the Champ, it appears they are from the Champ.

Go back to the posting I made on this thread dated 11/06/10. You will find photos of most everything, including the module, that are inside the 2000i. This was my initial "skinning".

You can also find the complete owner's manual online here which includes the wiring or interconnect diagram for the module on page 24 (in the manual - not the pdf page.)

I would strongly encourage anyone that really wants to know about this inverter generator to look back at my "skinning" photos and read the owner's manual for the product. Even the warnings that are all over the first few pages contain information helpful in understanding what the generator is and what it is for.

[MrRchitty]

O & S,

I believe you requested photos of the inverter on the Champ. I looked back, remembering the Professor posted photos, however, he never comes out and says that they are those of the Champ's. Looking at the photos and looking under the hood of the Champ, it appears they are from the Champ.

Link back to Professor's photos.

I will say, from memory, my claimed 3000 Watt inverter type from East Coast, has a different inverter unit. It has a sticker which reads 2kw 120v on it. There are photos of this unit in the 3000 Watt Chinese Generator forum, however, would take me a while to find them. I remember when the fella posted his photos, he had the same handwritten sticker which read 2kw 120v.

Backing the professor's statements, however factual, he's right. It is what it is. Dollar for dollar, it is the biggest bang for your buck.

For further testing, I ran my set of halogen lights, approx. load of 900 Watts, sorry, was working on Spring cleaning and did not employ the meters. I ran this load for 2 hours on Eco mode. Generator ran fine, no odors or indication of overheating.

Certainly, by itself, you are going to run 1 significant load at a time. 2 of them, dollar for dollar, you have something that is going to do more of what you may want. (or what I want for that matter)

:W

Still waiting on the Electrical Instructor in my home town who is looking at my Converter/Charger.

[JConatser]

Old & Slow wrote:
IMHO, IF, CPE is hanging their hat on the Champion 2000i they won't be here long. Again, just IMHO.

Would you please list whatever facts or pieces of info you have seen that has caused you to arrive at this opinion?

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:
IMHO, IF, CPE is hanging their hat on the Champion 2000i they won't be here long. Again, just IMHO.

Apparently, there is a TOTAL lack of understanding of anything that has been posted or explained about this generator.

From the front of the 2000i manual. Note it is clearly marked as 1600 watts.





From the inside of the manual. The 2000 watt rating is for no more than 5 seconds.






From the manual parts list. The circuit breaker is rated for 13.3 amps. At 120 volts this will equal 1,596 watts. It is a delayed trip allowing surge currents up to 2,000 watts for 6 seconds.






Again, from the manual. A specific caution about overloading the 2000i.





And finally, the specification tag on my RV microwave oven showing a power load requirment of 13 amps.




The 2000i will power my microwave by itself (no other loads). This is barely within the design limits for the generator.

As I shared in the past - It is not a Honda, or a Yamaha or a Kipor it is what it is. And that is a very good 1600 watt inverter generator that does everything that it is designed to do.

It is not specifically marketed as a camping generator. Unlike the parallel kit or the 3,500 watt synchronous generators it does NOT have a RV outlet. There are many other portable or emergency power needs other than RV's

Why would it NOT make a good camping generator if that is what one wants? It is quiet, fuel efficient, under 50 pounds, ruggedly built, easy to start and will power a converter/charger to recharge batteries and run 12 VDC appliances, provide 120 VAC power for TV, hair dryer, fans, DVD, coffee maker, toaster, and lights.

It is NOT designed to run a RV air conditioner or large RV microwave ovens.

Since you are consistently looking for something that isn't there why don't YOU purchase a 2000i and take the time to run the tests YOU want the answers to and post the results HERE rather than insulting the people that make the observations by suggesting they are "plants" providing false information or have other motives?