The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread

[pritch272]

8/1/2010 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: Champion Inverter and Remote Gens Promo on CPE's web site)

3/22/2011 edit: Thread renamed ...
Renamed from: Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread

3/23/2011 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: (Un)Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread

Inverter Available August 2010



Remote Available July 2010

[MrRchitty]

Hybridhunter wrote:


For me this gen is 100% for camping, so the whole experience of owning it for me depends on it's effectiveness and longevity. A lot of people waited for this product from CPE, I hope their is the typical large number of happy customers out there, who never post....

I feel the same way. I am hoping to pull off successful dry camping at some state parks. Certainly, time will tell with continued use. I am sure that there are tons of happy customers. I only began researching and following the forums when I had a problem with another off brand inverter generator marketed as a 3000 Watt several years back.

As far as the Champion goes, I look forward to purchasing the second one with the parallel kit. But first, I must save my pennies.

[Hybridhunter]

Hybridhunter wrote:
I still can't figure why my converter is tripping it, especially once I have it charging, and then it goes into bulk mode, and the generator still overloads, even though it does not sound like it is laboring.

MrRchitty wrote:

What was the charge condition of the battery or batteries?

The time that the generator would not start it, but instead instant overload, the battery had enough juice to still keep my fridge going on gas, and my furnace running. But it was close to fully discharged.

Once I pre-loaded the genset and got the converter going, it was maybe and hour and a half later, (50% charged), but I have plenty of devices to load the converter up, so that it puts out full power. The big problem is not so much the converter oveloading once it is going, that I can work around. I have no use for it if I need to find a hairdryer or whatever to trick it to get my battery to start charging.

MrRchitty wrote:

I am not sure how far back you read, but I had an issue with the Little Champ. I attached it to the travel trailer and the batteries were very low. The WFCO 8955 recharged the batteries over 5 hours. At the end is where I noticed a problem when I tried to operate the microwave and had issues with it going into overload and then smoked. It was promptly replaced. I have since replaced the batteries and have not had an opportunity to "cycle" the batteries and let the replacement Champ recharge the batteries. There are pictures of the WFCO scoped and its effects on the generators can be seen.....

I've read this whole thing, I wasn't sure what to take away from your generator cratering. 50/50 chance of a defective generator or defective design. Your 8955 at full power would have been running almost 100% of the VA potential of the 2000i, based on my tests. Does this mean it has a durability issue under those conditions? As for scoping the effect, interesting, but a lot less conclusive to me that measuring the power factor. As wave formation / distortion is a topic unto itself.

MrRchitty wrote:


Otherwise, I have good luck with the Little Champ. Single items such as a shop vac, small compressor, small upright vacuum in the camper, 1100 Watt micro wave, 1000 Watt water heater on the TT etc....

I also added an additional circuit breaker on my WFCO 8955. The converter was pigtailed with another circuit on the camper not allowing me to turn just the converter off. Now, it has it's own breaker. It allows me more options to manage my power.

Again, thanks to the Professor!!

For me this gen is 100% for camping, so the whole experience of owning it for me depends on it's effectiveness and longevity. A lot of people waited for this product from CPE, I hope their is the typical large number of happy customers out there, who never post....

[MrRchitty]

Hybridhunter wrote:
I still can't figure why my converter is tripping it, especially once I have it charging, and then it goes into bulk mode, and the generator still overloads, even though it does not sound like it is laboring.

What was the charge condition of the battery or batteries? I am not sure how far back you read, but I had an issue with the Little Champ. I attached it to the travel trailer and the batteries were very low. The WFCO 8955 recharged the batteries over 5 hours. At the end is where I noticed a problem when I tried to operate the microwave and had issues with it going into overload and then smoked. It was promptly replaced. I have since replaced the batteries and have not had an opportunity to "cycle" the batteries and let the replacement Champ recharge the batteries. There are pictures of the WFCO scoped and its effects on the generators can be seen.

Otherwise, I have good luck with the Little Champ. Single items such as a shop vac, small compressor, small upright vacuum in the camper, 1100 Watt micro wave, 1000 Watt water heater on the TT etc....

I also added an additional circuit breaker on my WFCO 8955. The converter was pigtailed with another circuit on the camper not allowing me to turn just the converter off. Now, it has it's own breaker. It allows me more options to manage my power.

Again, thanks to the Professor!!

[Hybridhunter]

greenrvgreen wrote:
Well, I can understand Prof seeming to sock puppet for CPE,

Manners are free ya know...

greenrvgreen wrote:

However, CPE made a conscious decision to jump into the 2k pool, and at this point their product seems destined for third place. It is both slightly heavier and slightly less capable than the red or blue "2k" units. At the same time it is half the price, and appears better-designed and better-executed than the remaining "Honda clones".

IMO, the stackable design and the modular dual wiring are exactly the kind of category-dominating offerings I would expect from CPE. I have no doubt that they are busy incorpporating lessons learned into the design for the 3k. But I think that the economies of scale that worked in their favor with the (magnificent) synchronous 3500/4000 now cut against them.

Over the winter I had pretty much decided to make the plunge and pick up a Champion 2k. However at this point it no longer looks like a something-for-nothing proposition, the way the 3500 still does. The absolute lack of surge forgiveness is more or less a deal killer for me, at least until they fix this.

And $1000 for a Honda or Yamaha just seems like too much for a camping generator. I spent some time trying to dress up my CPE 1200 (synchronous) as a candidate for "main" generator, but it is just too small. I think the "perfect" size is the 1600/2000 inverter, and if CPE can get theirs to accept surges similar to Red or Blue, then I'll go for it.

I do agree that it is strange to enter the 2KW generator market with a product that comes out of the gate with apparent shortcomings. I think that it would have made more senese to make it 5% more than it's competitors, not 5% less. Something as simple as a note about VA / PF in the manual would help a lot.
But again, it is not the same market, as you can buy 2 of them for the price of 1 red or blue.

[Hybridhunter]

DSchmidt_2000 wrote:
FWIW, the Yamaha EF2000is does talk about power factor. They have a chart in there derating the max wattage to be connected to their inverter generator. If I remember correctly the max wattage for a motor appliance is less than 1KW, not so much for the starting surge but due to the < 1 power factor.

Yep, here it is on page 20.
http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/manuals/EF2000iS_manual.pdf

Very good post. I see the max is 1600 VA. That would accomodate a WFCO PED8955. I suspect that this hasn't caused overloads because many people have the 8945? It would be a shame if the Champion misses my needs by 50VA, as there is no way reduce the output on the converter that is reasonably practical. I would be happy if it just starts it when my battery is run down.
That being said, I only bought the Champ because of it's $400 price at costco, so I am not in the market for a Honda or Yamaha. But a slight tweak to these units, and they could be on par with the, um, other brand..... As it is, the CPE puts out the same or more wattage sustained.

[DSchmidt_2000]

FWIW, the Yamaha EF2000is does talk about power factor. They have a chart in there derating the max wattage to be connected to their inverter generator. If I remember correctly the max wattage for a motor appliance is less than 1KW, not so much for the starting surge but due to the < 1 power factor.

Yep, here it is on page 20.
http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/manuals/EF2000iS_manual.pdf

[greenrvgreen]

Well, I can understand Prof seeming to sock puppet for CPE, as they are a vibrant company with a tradition of excellence in design and customer service--it is easy to get excited about CPE. And I agree with his point about the 2k getting a better perception if it was the 1.6k.

However, CPE made a conscious decision to jump into the 2k pool, and at this point their product seems destined for third place. It is both slightly heavier and slightly less capable than the red or blue "2k" units. At the same time it is half the price, and appears better-designed and better-executed than the remaining "Honda clones".

IMO, the stackable design and the modular dual wiring are exactly the kind of category-dominating offerings I would expect from CPE. I have no doubt that they are busy incorpporating lessons learned into the design for the 3k. But I think that the economies of scale that worked in their favor with the (magnificent) synchronous 3500/4000 now cut against them.

Over the winter I had pretty much decided to make the plunge and pick up a Champion 2k. However at this point it no longer looks like a something-for-nothing proposition, the way the 3500 still does. The absolute lack of surge forgiveness is more or less a deal killer for me, at least until they fix this.

And $1000 for a Honda or Yamaha just seems like too much for a camping generator. I spent some time trying to dress up my CPE 1200 (synchronous) as a candidate for "main" generator, but it is just too small. I think the "perfect" size is the 1600/2000 inverter, and if CPE can get theirs to accept surges similar to Red or Blue, then I'll go for it.

[professor95]

Hybridhunter wrote:
Not even a comment about the power factor professor? That reply sounded like a company statement. Hmmm
Realistically my converter situation is not even slightly outside of what the average user should expect.

Yea, it does sound like a company statement. Sorry - that was not my intent. It is just that a module with updated software is not going to be a magic bullet or make the 2000i into something it never was.

IMHO, the CPE 2000i NEVER should have been marketed as a 2,000 watt inverter generator. If they had introduced it as a 1800 watt perception of performance would have been better. It is, truthfully, a good 1,600 watt inverter generator that can supply SMALL surge loads of up to 250 milliseconds at 2,000 watts.

As for the power factor issue, look back at some of my postings. I recently spent a considerable amount of time writing about the WFCO and small synchronous generators. I expressed concern about the possible performance issues with an inverter but had not collected any data. I found that my PD converter did not have the issues.

Well, some of the contributors on this thread and the 3,000 watt Chinese genny thread challenged my observations and thinking in a less than professional manner. So, I just said to my self, "Sc**w It" - if publishing a exploratory concept with a probable cause is going to result in that type of response, I have no interest in going further (here).

What you described with your WFCO converter is very much like my initial observations with a synchronous 1200. I still blame it on the WFCO design, not the generator.

But, back to the module on the 2000i - As I said they do have software upgraded modules and will work with owners that feel they need an exchange. I did do the exchange on mine. But, after taking the time to open the cases, which is at least 40 minutes both ways (add another hour trying to find the fuel knob screw that fell on the floor), packaging the old module for return and shipping it out the result is simply not beneficial enough to constitute the time spent doing the swap. I can honestly say that in my estimation, based on tests I ran with my units, the situation you described will not be cured with a newer module.

I guess the bottom line is that I would hate to see the misconception shared that the older 2000i has a fault that requires everyone to ask for a new module. I just do not believe it is worth the time to do so. Either way it is no sweat off my back, I just want to try and keep to the facts - not the rumors.

[PrivatePilot]

I wired in my fan motor kill switch to my AC today. Unfortunately, despite having the shroud off on the roof awaiting it's arrival, my hardstart cap fell through.

I did diacover that It's tantalizingly close to being able to fire off on my Tripplite inverter now though. It will actually roll the compressor over a few turns before falling on it's face, and this is without the hard start.

If firing off straight from the generator turns out to be impossible even after the cap and fan motor override, I'm thinking my inverter WILL fire it off. Now, I'm contemplating a way to switch from the inverter to the generator instantly once it's running since the Champ would likely run it fine once it's running.

[Hybridhunter]

Not even a comment about the power factor professor? That reply sounded like a company statement. Hmmm
Realistically my converter situation is not even slightly outside of what the average user should expect.

[professor95]

PrivatePilot wrote:

Hybridhunter wrote:
Do you have the updated control board?

No idea. I've no idea how to even check.

It is a running production upgrade that is just beginning to filter into existing inventories. Unless you bought a 2000i today from new inventory you will not have the longer delay module.

99% of owners of the 2000i will NEVER need a longer delay. But, for those 1% that are trying to start an appliance that imposes a significant inductive surge load (like a 10 amp circular saw) a longer delay may improve the situation. I have tried the original module, which has 250 milliseconds delay, one of the new ones with the software updated to 400 milliseconds and another test module set to 800 milliseconds. I found the 400 to be the absolute maximum delay the engine could handle and personally do NOT believe it is worth the time to disassemble the case and swap the modules. The overload delay is computed to provide protection to the circuits and components in the module. Increasing the delay is similar to putting in a slow blow fuse. It is putting your module at an increased level of risk. IMHO, feathering the trigger of a circular saw so as to slowly pick up momentum before pulling the switch in all the way is the best way to start a power tool of this type.

There is NOT a module delay time that will allow the 2000i to start a 13,500 BTU air conditioner with a conventional compressor no matter how many starting capacitors you add. If it did not overload, the 13 amp circuit breaker will trip. There is a possibility it might be able to start a new high efficiency AC with a scroll compressor - but we have yet to find one to mate to the 2000i.

Remember guys, the CPE 2000i is NOT a Honda 2000. The CPE is what it is. You will get more power per dollar spent with the CPE2000i, but the power will not equal a Honda 2000i which has a larger engine. If you want a Honda, buy one rather than expecting the CPE 2000i to be an equal.

[Hybridhunter]

So the update on the Converter issue is this....

I took my brand new Kill-A-Watt meter and plugged it into the generator, and fired up the converter. Basically the "Power Factor" is off. So as much as the converter only draws around 850 watts at full load, the load on the generator is 1540 VA (Volt-Amps), and this is quite a large load on it, as well, because this is the "perceived" load, it causes issues with the control circuitry.

To top that off that my dad and I both bought ours at the same time, and his was defective, (overload light on with no load) right out of the box. It has become apparent to me that there is some fairly obvious quality control issues with the 2000i. So it is what it is, a cheaper genset that is not on par with Honda with regards to surge loads or VA. My experience with resistive loads is that it handles 1900 watts no problem.
I can see a lot of pissed of RV'ers when they plug in their fancy new 2000i, and it overloads repeatedly, and all they want to do is charge their dead batteries.
So far, for the money, I am satisfied, but I am hopeful that the updated circuit boards will help in this regard. A little disappointed that CPE released a product that doesn't even do what it's intended market would expect.
I'll keep y'all posted.

[Hybridhunter]

I think it is a very recent update, and I will report back on the AC success or failure as well. I will be using the correct SPP4E cap

[MrRchitty]

And no for me, too.

[PrivatePilot]

Hybridhunter wrote:
Do you have the updated control board?

No idea. I've no idea how to even check.