Toilet won't flush

[duggram]

Yesterday I did my weekly tank drain (I full time) and both black and gray made sounds and felt like they flushed. This morning my toilet is full of sewer water. I turned the water off to my trailer so I could flush without adding water to the problem. I then gently stuck a broom handle down the hole and met a solid surface.

Does anyone have a suggestion on where to start to fix this?

[duggram]

Hey thanks for all the replies! I'll try to remember all the comments I need to make. The toilet sits on top of the tank. Yesterday when I flushed it I could see that the water level was close to the bottom of the valve, so I drained the tank. Also, you should know that the gray water flows into the black water pipe above the main slide valve. So I can tell that the main slide valve is still working by draining the gray tank, and it is passing fluid. I'm supposed to leave for a week long trip tonight which complicates things a little. My plan now is to clean out the toilet bowl with the plunger, which does a good job of sucking up fluid. I have the water shut off just in case it really can bleed into the black tank some how. I think I would have heard the toilet if the water were running in it and it never does when I'm looking at it. I'll keep messing with the snakes to see if I can make some progress but all they seem to be doing now is cleaning/loosening up old debris from the sides of the tank. I had to run and errand and was visiting with a friend who has had similar issues with his RV. Like he says my system could get any more simple, which is frustrating. I should be able to work this out.

For sure, I am not taking the hose of the pipe and running the snake up it. If the tank is full and it appears to be that would make a mess I never want to see, and I'm sure my park manager feels the same.

So I'll keep messing with my problem here until it's bed time just to see if I can get lucky. Thanks again for all the replies. Each one is good. Thank you.

[DutchmenSport]

We still need more info from the OP about the toilet. Is the toilet positioned directly over the black tank? When pushing the pedal, in the past, can you look directly down the hole of the toilet and into the black tank? If so, what do you see now? Get a flashlight and look down. What do you see.

Is your toilet attached to a pipe that has a bend or a twist in it and not directly over the tank? If so, you could have a clog in the pipe, like what could happen in a house. But if the toilet is directly above the tank, I don't understand how you can have a blockage, unless the inside of the neck of the toilet itself is full. But pushing a broom handle down would have pushed anything in there on down. Otherwise, you have a poop pyramid from the bottom of the tank to the top of the tank.

Now, where that sewer water came from is very strange. Water runs down hill, unless under pressure. If your outside tank valves are left open all the time, and you have solid PVC type pipes plumbed directly into your camper tank, it's possible back pressure could potentially fill the black tank from the campground sewer system and back up into the bowel of the trailer. But that would have to be a LOT of back - up and a LOT of pressure to come out of the ground 4 to 6 feet high, fill a 40 or 50 gallon tank, and still have enough back flow to come up into the toilet bowl.

So the question we all need answered is, how is your toilet and the plumbing under it done? Straight shot down or through a pipe to the black tank?

[mobilefleet]

you have a blockage at the gate valve. I bet there is something at the tank valve blocking it, or valve is stuck in the closed position, verify the valve opening is actually open if you can when you pull the valve handle. Sometimes if yours is one of those that has a cable that goes up into the underbelly where you can't see it, may feel like it opens when you pull the handle, but may have actually broken off completely or partially, rendering the valve unopened.

[myredracer]

Black tanks can be quite shallow. Ours in only about 6" high. If your broomstick won't go in far it's probably hitting the tank bottom and won't tell you much.

Liquid Drano can be safely used. In fact, our owners manual says to use it. Won't hurt metal or plastic but double check the label if you buy another brand. You'll need to drive around to let the Drano + contents slosh around. May need to repeat multiple times to get the tank thoroughly cleaned. I use it once or twice a year to get the tank back to factory fresh, factory clean condition.

I see that your unit is an '06 Raptor. Is this a sudden problem of getting worse over time? Have you owned this long? With black tanks, you need to add a few gallons of water before each use and you shouldn't skimp on water with each flush. If you don't, you can get the infamous pyramid of poo and at the least, the tank below the toilet can get pretty gummed up and "stuff" won't move along very well.

In some cases, the factory may have left behind a disc of the ABS inside the tank but on an '06 would be unlikely. If you hold the toilet valve open, water *should* be able to freely drain out through the outlet. If the valve is remote cable operated, need to see if the blade valve is opening properly. Not easy if you have an enclosed underbelly.

Before dumping, you always want to fill the tank to full or near full. Forget about using the sensors to see how full the tank is. Shut the water off and peer down the toilet with a flashlight. I added a shutoff valve behind our toilet to make this easier.

Tanks come in all sorts of dimensions, configurations and outlet locations. With some, pushing a snake or hose back up the outlet won't do much but is worth trying. I once used about a 6' length of stiff rubber garden hose back into the tank to clear it. You could also try pushing a hose around the tank from down the toilet. With some tank configurations, a backflush elbow on the outlet won't do much - doesn't work on our current TT but worked great on a previous TT. A clear elbow is great for seeing what's coming out and how clear the water is getting.

If you're at a CG, see if they have a honey wagon service. They may be able to suck the tank clean.

[mnoeltne]

Get one of the clear plastic reverse flush attachments. This will allow you to watch what gets drained, and you can try pushing some water back up into the tank from the bottom in case something has the outlet blocked.

[ndrorder]

Duggram. Failure to drain pops up on here every couple months. Here is a link to the last thread. OP thought tank was frozen but ended up being the dreaded poop pyramid.

https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/29568489/srt/pa/pging/1/page/1.cfm

Some of the newer RVs use a remote cable to open the valve and the cable has been known to break. Are you sure the valve is opening today as it was yesterday? The thread above speaks to several methods to clear a blockage. I don't know if Drano will affect the components in your system and I doubt there is a pre-tank. Not knowing your trailer, the broom handle may be stopping at an elbow in the system or hitting the bottom of the tank. Either way, its a ****-shoot (just had to work that in) that any snake will find its way to the exit of the tank unless its inserted from the drain end.

WRT filling, as Maillemaker mentioned. The only ways to fill the black tank are rain coming down the vent pipe, the flush valve on the toilet not fully turning off and running into the tank, or on some RV's the bathroom sink drains to the black tank and that valve isn't fully turning off.

In the big scheme of things, getting the black tank to drain may be the bigger priority.

[wopachop]

Does your black tank gauge normally work? What's it's saying now?

Seems like it started to drain and clogged. You're looking down the toilet and see water correct?

Maybe leave the black tank drain open all day and hopefully it will slowly drain until empty. Then go about finding the clog.

[golf_bears]

Did you try putting your 15 ft snake up the drain line, not down the toilet?

Did you check the black valve pull cable to see if it's disconnected/broken from the valve?

[pasusan]

duggram wrote:

maillemaker wrote:

1) The tank is not draining. The way to verify this is as was said above: Simply open your drain valve with no hose hooked up, have someone flush the toilet. Water should come out of the waste gate. If no water comes out, you have a blockage.

Steve

Steve, I can't do this:

The toilet has sewer water in it. I'm not disconnecting the sewer hookup line and flushing the toiet.

Use a bucket - you *need* to see what's happening...

The one thing that I've heard of is the plastic round disc that is cut out of the tank to add the outlet pipe sometimes is left in the tank and can then try to come out with a dump and clog the opening.

Good luck!

[duggram]

DavinD wrote:
Do you perhaps have electric dump valves?

No, not that I know of. The trailer is an '06 Keystone Raptor. Of course it has been fine until today.

[duggram]

maillemaker wrote:

1) The tank is not draining. The way to verify this is as was said above: Simply open your drain valve with no hose hooked up, have someone flush the toilet. Water should come out of the waste gate. If no water comes out, you have a blockage.

Steve

Steve, I can't do this:

The toilet has sewer water in it. I'm not disconnecting the sewer hookup line and flushing the toiet.

[DavinD]

Do you perhaps have electric dump valves?

[duggram]

Something that I don't understand is that yesterday when I drained my black tank you could hear flow and feel it in the drain tube. So I know it was draining. But why did it backup into the toilet today? Is there some kind of pre-black tank holding tank?

Any help appreciated.

[maillemaker]

On my RV, the tank outlet is about 12" away from the waste gate. A black pipe goes from the tank to the waste gate. When I lift my access hatch, I can see my black tank and the waste gate.

Steve

[maillemaker]

I then gently stuck a broom handle down the hole and met a solid surface.

I don't know how your RV is configured, but in mine, the toilet is positioned directly above the black tank, so when you open the toilet flapper valve and look down when the tank is empty, you can see the translucent plastic bottom of the tank.

So if I suck a broom handle down my toilet hole, it also would strike a solid surface - the bottom of the tank.

If your tank is full of water, you have to potential problems:

1) The tank is not draining. The way to verify this is as was said above: Simply open your drain valve with no hose hooked up, have someone flush the toilet. Water should come out of the waste gate. If no water comes out, you have a blockage.

2) You have a water leak somewhere that is filling your black water tank. In some RVs I am given to understand that not just the toilet dumps into the black tank. Sometimes the bathroom sink or other things can also dump into the black tank. If this is the case on your RV, and you have a leaky faucet, it could be filling up your black tank.

Steve