TOOLS I Have A Question

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Germany is more expensive than the United States. Wages, taxes, basic standard of living. Right?

Then please tell me why WILLI HAHN can manufacture screwdrivers and pliers far superior in quality to Snap On or Mac tools that cost WAY MORE then tools that are shipped thousands of miles across the Atlantic Ocean and marketed here?

There is no USA competition for these tools -- Knipex is considerably more expensive than WiHa. I have no idea where Knipex is made.

There is no other word I can substitute for the following one: The USA is prostituting our sense of integrity of quality for the almighty dollar.

There are a few holdouts. Caterpillar, 3M, General Electric (for medical) and Westinghouse (For large generators and transformers).

Siemens is kicking our *** world wide for electrical assembles and again this is a German enterprise. B*A*R*T*? A Siemens project. The San Diego Red Trolley? Again Siemens.

Too much of what I read on this forum are problems the result of which are due to shoddy design and manufacturing. Too many products have USA brand names and garbage Chinese design.

Why am I fuming? I lost a forty dollar frying pan this morning. An elite brand. The handle came off the hard way with absolutely no way to repair it. Elite USA brand name -- manufactured in China. We canno make a @#$%^&! forty dollar frying pan. Gimmee a break.

[agesilaus]

siggyd777 wrote:
FWIW , the Turbine's in the 3 gorges dam in China are made by GE, SIEMENS , ABB ,Alstom and others.
Siggy

So what? Who can even tell what company belongs to what country anymore? I'm halfway surprised that GE is still providing turbines under their name, Westinghouse sold out to Siemans years ago. ABB is Allen Baker Bradley IIRC which was a US company.

[dougrainer]

time2roll wrote:

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Germany is more expensive than the United States. Wages, taxes, basic standard of living. Right?

Then please tell me why WILLI HAHN can manufacture screwdrivers and pliers far superior in quality to Snap On or Mac tools that cost WAY MORE then tools that are shipped thousands of miles across the Atlantic Ocean and marketed here?

There is no USA competition for these tools -- Knipex is considerably more expensive than WiHa. I have no idea where Knipex is made.

The tool line looks fairly narrow. Poor distribution compared to Snap and Mac.

I have been a RV technician for almost 40 years. When I started as a tech I purchased at least $20,000 worth of Snap On tools and tool chests in my first 10 years. When I purchased those Tools, Snap On warrantied those tools, regardless of which tool it was. My air tools failed or wore out? No problem, the route man gave me a loaner if he could not rebuild or fix the day he came. Then Snap On started to NOT warranty the tools for life. Need it rebuilt, PAY ME and wait 2 to 3 weeks for it to be repaired. Loaner? Sorry, they do not loan tools anymore. So, I concentrated on Craftsman, because back in those old days SEARS DID warranty their Craftsman tools. Then Sears stopped that policy for most of their NON hand tools. So, Now, I purchase from Lowes, because they do have a better warranty and I also buy from Amazon, and can get name brand tools at a better price. Doug

PS. Mac and Snap On use their financing to get mechanics on the hook. Some Mechanics like the dog and pony show the route owners use to get them to buy. At 63 years of age, I do not fall for that and did not when I was younger.

[siggyd777]

FWIW , the Turbine's in the 3 gorges dam in China are made by GE, SIEMENS , ABB ,Alstom and others.
Siggy

[time2roll]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Germany is more expensive than the United States. Wages, taxes, basic standard of living. Right?

Then please tell me why WILLI HAHN can manufacture screwdrivers and pliers far superior in quality to Snap On or Mac tools that cost WAY MORE then tools that are shipped thousands of miles across the Atlantic Ocean and marketed here?

There is no USA competition for these tools -- Knipex is considerably more expensive than WiHa. I have no idea where Knipex is made.

The tool line looks fairly narrow. Poor distribution compared to Snap and Mac.

[agesilaus]

Heh anyone one who doesn't take SS and medicare is an idiot after providing the government with an interest free loan all their working lives to pay for it. If you had been paid 6% interest on that money you would have one heck of a lot of money when you retire, half a million in my case, which I would happily take in exchange for SS.

[Big_Katuna]

agesilaus wrote:
I am also going to say that Germany is not more expensive for a BASIC standard of living.

The average Hans Garbage man in Germany won’t lose his house if he or a family member gets cancer. His kids can go to college or trade school no charge if they want.
They get at least, two months vacation per year and their ice cream, proteins and produce are better. Not to mention you can smoke a doob and sunbath nude without getting arrested.
----------------------------------------------------

Of course, if you choose to accept a lower standard of living, pay tremendous levels of taxes, give up all sorts of Freedoms (1st and 2nd Amendments for a start) then you too can live in a socialist wonderland. Paying up to 3X what we do here for electricity helps too. The democrats are doing their worst to bring that to us here. All you have to do is look at California for an example where they are trying to convert it from a free society to a socialist Hades. They are stuck in between right now where they are driving out capitalist businesses but haven't figured out the rest of it. They can't pay for it without captive productive workers to support the parasites. Their road system certainly brings WWII Germany anyway to mind.

Someone should write a book about this, Oh wait! Ayn Rand already wrote that book. Where is John Galt?

Ayn Rand? Really? Now THATs funny. She lined up for SS and Medicare just like everybody else.. and I’m sure as you are a devout follower that you refuse SS and Medicare..

Have you really ever spent any time in Western Europe?
Where’s John Galt?
Hanging out in the south of France.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

And you are saying the USA cannot match Germany? That BMW and Mercedes for domestic consumption cannot be done because of the inherent domestic limited market?

Some of you are looking at the world while using blinders.

[agesilaus]

I am also going to say that Germany is not more expensive for a BASIC standard of living.

The average Hans Garbage man in Germany won’t lose his house if he or a family member gets cancer. His kids can go to college or trade school no charge if they want.
They get at least, two months vacation per year and their ice cream, proteins and produce are better. Not to mention you can smoke a doob and sunbath nude without getting arrested.
----------------------------------------------------

Of course, if you choose to accept a lower standard of living, pay tremendous levels of taxes, give up all sorts of Freedoms (1st and 2nd Amendments for a start) then you too can live in a socialist wonderland. Paying up to 3X what we do here for electricity helps too. The democrats are doing their worst to bring that to us here. All you have to do is look at California for an example where they are trying to convert it from a free society to a socialist Hades. They are stuck in between right now where they are driving out capitalist businesses but haven't figured out the rest of it. They can't pay for it without captive productive workers to support the parasites. Their road system certainly brings WWII Germany anyway to mind.

Someone should write a book about this, Oh wait! Ayn Rand already wrote that book. Where is John Galt?

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Sadly it appears too many people have no concept at all of economic management. But the 2nd above post is a bright spot 🙂

Is it some folks are so dim they do not realize the cost of failure and replacement.

Jeezo 4 decades ago the most common comment I heard was "We are so glad to have someone come to our campsite (Yosemite) and save our vacation" The alternative would have been to abandon our pre-paid spot and spend five hundred dollars on a tow job". What happened? I'll tell you -what happened- Today it's "Honey where is the campfire remote control?" It's a different universe.

SNAP or Poof goes the tool. SCREAM goes the expense at the motions of replacing it with more junk.

The hundred dollars I spent warring over a pair of Wal Mart rag grade tires makes me scream a year later. I knew better.

WOMEN are classic chew & spit consumers with regard to form versus function. Styles, collections. It's in vogue regardless if it looks like the wardrobe of The Creature From The Black Lagoon.

It's not merely consumer business models for tool vendors Big Katuna, it's precisely that THERE ARE NO ALTERNATIVES to substandard Snap On and MAC tools.

[Big_Katuna]

Where to start, where to start.

There is more than purchase price inside the pricing model for Snap On, MAC,etc.

The tool is delivered, replaced if it fails and financed if need be. And it retains some resale value. But I agree their tools are not the best. It’s a marketing driven business model.

I am also going to say that Germany is not more expensive for a BASIC standard of living.

The average Hans Garbage man in Germany won’t lose his house if he or a family member gets cancer. His kids can go to college or trade school no charge if they want.
They get at least, two months vacation per year and their ice cream, proteins and produce are better. Not to mention you can smoke a doob and sunbath nude without getting arrested.

[2oldman]

monkey44 wrote:
personally, I'd rather pay more for quality than pay twice for junk.

Works for me.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Yeah yeah yeah

Inventory your house and tell me the percentage of made in USA items you list. Have you ever personally owned and operated a manufacturing business? My cultural experience is CHEW & SPIT goes beyond stupid all the way to insane and rings the bell.

When something INFERIOR broke on me, including my products it was horridly wasteful. I have no idea where you obtained your business education or experience but you need to re-think it.

JUST IN TIME DELIVERY is not done for efficiency IT IS DONE TO ELIMINATE HORRENDOUS WAREHOUSE INVENTORY TAXES leaving a manufacturer vulnerable to labor, the weather, and scheduling and a daisy chain of ****ups.

May be you are settled into the upper-crust of US society. I no longer am. And even when I was I saw the effects of inferiority on business/consumer climate. The most prosperous era in USA history ACROSS THE SPECTRUM was in the 1960's. I suffered four years of crunching numbers and endless lectures of economic modeling at Stanford to earn an MBA. The resource wasting insanity of the present economic model is heading for a 90 degree curve at blinding speed.

A person can waste all they want and try and convince intelligent people that time effort and money spent to purchase 8 tools at twenty dollars each is preferable to spending fifty dollars once.

[monkey44]

Not sure about anyone else, but I'm tired of buying things that break or fail... personally, I'd rather pay more for quality than pay twice for junk.

[agesilaus]

You have a false assumption at the start. Germany has a much lower per capita disposable income and per capita GDP and consequently, a lower standard of living than the US. Both per capita GDP and per capita disposable income are 10 to 15 percent lower in Germany the US."
---------------------------------------

That's true all European counties have a per capita income about what they have in Alabama or Mississippi, the lowest in the US. Most of those countries don't even get that high. Semi-socialist countries pay a steep price but hide that from their populations.

[agesilaus]

I've never been inside a Snapon truck nor have I ever set my hands on one. Not sure if I ever saw on. But they have played a very smart game. They limit their customer base to pro mechanics, pretend that their tools are elite quality and maybe they used to be. And have a solid base of fan-boys. No different than Apple or Tesla.

Customer belief is everything in the marketing world. And a lot of companies have been very successful at the game. I hate to tell you this but a manufactured in Mexico, Viet Nam, or most other Asian countries tag is worth just about as much as one saying Made in China.

Lots of people look for the made in America label, or made im Deutchland. Japanese electronic have a high reputation as well.