Upgrading converter

[SirBenji]

Hey folks!

I am looking at the BD 1255 MBA 55 Amp 4-Stage Main Board Replacement. I have a WFCO 8955 PEC. I am looking to upgrade to a couple Golf Cart batteries this year and we do a lot of boon dock camping so need faster charge ability when using the generator. Has anyone installed this before? Would this be the best option for me or would you fine folks recommend something else?

Also, I've read that the BD 1255 MBA 55 Amp 4-Stage Main Board Replacement is not a true 4 stage smart charger? The boost, normal, and trickle charges happen automatically (based on time) but the equalization charge needs to be manually triggered? Is this true?

Anyone who has this know if this is easy to do and how often would I need to do it?

I emailed bestconverter.com but they haven't got back to me.

Thanks for your time,
-Ben

[time2roll]

Thermoguy wrote:
I apologize for hijacking this thread. I am interested in a possible converter upgrade as well.

First, I have a WFCO WF-8935 - 30AMP, not 55AMP. Trying to decide if I have a battery charging problem or battery problem. I have 2 2year old 6V Duracell batteries. When I put them on an external charger, they charge right up, but aren't holding the charge for long. Using the installed WFCO charger, they never seem to get to full charge status. This is a new problem as I just installed the batteries after winter storage a couple weeks ago. We are getting ready for memorial day weekend and turns out I booked the wrong site with no power or water, not sure how I missed that. But, we have a generator and can top off the batteries, just don't want to do that every day or even try to get away without using the gen if I can.

Question 1. How do I test to see if the converter is working correctly and charging the batteries? I feel like I'm not putting my leads in the right place, only ever getting a little over 12v DC.

Question 2 if I replace the converter, what is a good substitute? Will the PD 4635WV slide right in? Is there a case to go larger? 45 or 55 AMP? If so, what else do you need to change?

Any other suggestions? Not a newby to RV's but have never had to mess with the electrical system other than switching to 6v and finding a disconnected ground which caused my electrical system to not work...

Thanks in advance for any advice. Just an FYI, not switching to LiIon, Not adding solar... etc. What I have works when it's working. We only boondock 3-4 times a year and the gen works fine to recharge the batteries when it works. We try to camp away from other people when we can.

8935 is a 35 amp converter. Probably a 30 amp RV that distributes 30 amps of 120vac.

Less than 13 volts on any converter is shot. May need to check fuses and such depending on where the test leads are connected. OK to remove and bench test. Probably not going back in anyway.

The most direct replacement would be the PowerMax MBA 35 amp.
https://powermaxconverters.com/product/pm3-mba/

[Thermoguy]

wa8yxm wrote:
Two lead placement locations
1:The battery. Fist unpluggee then plugged in note any voltage difference
Then hours later (Like 4) and again not the voltage then post and we may be able to advise better as to "is it working)
WFCO has a known (And as I'm told though I've never done it easily fixed) issue where it does not go into BULK so it takes a long time to charge.

This replaces the electronics on the back of the breaker/fuse panel so it's a bit cheaper than the 9200 series but otherwise works the same.

Question 2: Progressive Dynamics 4600 series I think the smallest is 4645 (With a 30 amp converter you will want the smallest 4600)

Thanks for the input.

I did measure the red and white leads coming from the converter with no battery hooked up and it measured 14.65 (aprox). I measured the white ground and red lead in the battery compartment and it read the same. I then hooked up the batteries and measured, 12.something, don't recall the exact number. That tells me that when not hooked up the converter is trying to charge at max level, then when hooked up it is going into float mode? maybe?...

I will unplug the trailer, measure after letting it sit for a bit, then measure again in the morning - to see what draw I get overnight. I have checked every light, etc, nothing is on that can be turned off.

Any other suggestions?

[LittleBill]

Thermoguy wrote:
I apologize for hijacking this thread. I am interested in a possible converter upgrade as well.

First, I have a WFCO WF-8935 - 30AMP, not 55AMP. Trying to decide if I have a battery charging problem or battery problem. I have 2 2year old 6V Duracell batteries. When I put them on an external charger, they charge right up, but aren't holding the charge for long. Using the installed WFCO charger, they never seem to get to full charge status. This is a new problem as I just installed the batteries after winter storage a couple weeks ago. We are getting ready for memorial day weekend and turns out I booked the wrong site with no power or water, not sure how I missed that. But, we have a generator and can top off the batteries, just don't want to do that every day or even try to get away without using the gen if I can.

Question 1. How do I test to see if the converter is working correctly and charging the batteries? I feel like I'm not putting my leads in the right place, only ever getting a little over 12v DC.

Question 2 if I replace the converter, what is a good substitute? Will the PD 4635WV slide right in? Is there a case to go larger? 45 or 55 AMP? If so, what else do you need to change?

Any other suggestions? Not a newby to RV's but have never had to mess with the electrical system other than switching to 6v and finding a disconnected ground which caused my electrical system to not work...

Thanks in advance for any advice. Just an FYI, not switching to LiIon, Not adding solar... etc. What I have works when it's working. We only boondock 3-4 times a year and the gen works fine to recharge the batteries when it works. We try to camp away from other people when we can.

Make a new thread, hijacking helps no one including you.

[wa8yxm]

Two lead placement locations
1:The battery. Fist unpluggee then plugged in note any voltage difference
Then hours later (Like 4) and again not the voltage then post and we may be able to advise better as to "is it working)
WFCO has a known (And as I'm told though I've never done it easily fixed) issue where it does not go into BULK so it takes a long time to charge.

This replaces the electronics on the back of the breaker/fuse panel so it's a bit cheaper than the 9200 series but otherwise works the same.

Question 2: Progressive Dynamics 4600 series I think the smallest is 4645 (With a 30 amp converter you will want the smallest 4600)

[Thermoguy]

I apologize for hijacking this thread. I am interested in a possible converter upgrade as well.

First, I have a WFCO WF-8935 - 30AMP, not 55AMP. Trying to decide if I have a battery charging problem or battery problem. I have 2 2year old 6V Duracell batteries. When I put them on an external charger, they charge right up, but aren't holding the charge for long. Using the installed WFCO charger, they never seem to get to full charge status. This is a new problem as I just installed the batteries after winter storage a couple weeks ago. We are getting ready for memorial day weekend and turns out I booked the wrong site with no power or water, not sure how I missed that. But, we have a generator and can top off the batteries, just don't want to do that every day or even try to get away without using the gen if I can.

Question 1. How do I test to see if the converter is working correctly and charging the batteries? I feel like I'm not putting my leads in the right place, only ever getting a little over 12v DC.

Question 2 if I replace the converter, what is a good substitute? Will the PD 4635WV slide right in? Is there a case to go larger? 45 or 55 AMP? If so, what else do you need to change?

Any other suggestions? Not a newby to RV's but have never had to mess with the electrical system other than switching to 6v and finding a disconnected ground which caused my electrical system to not work...

Thanks in advance for any advice. Just an FYI, not switching to LiIon, Not adding solar... etc. What I have works when it's working. We only boondock 3-4 times a year and the gen works fine to recharge the batteries when it works. We try to camp away from other people when we can.

[StirCrazy]

BFL13 wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:


I see what your saying. I guess if we stay in that area that skews the numbers the advantage will be on the smaller side but what if we are looking at using the genny from 65-100% how much differentce is there then. this is more where I lived with my GC batteries and solar instead of a genny. I would be at tht 60 to 70% mark in the morning and recharged by 1 to 2 pm to 100% I did drain down my new battery pack by about 45AH in the drive way an did a simulation and it was recharged by 11:38am. hardly scientific but a simular amount that needed to be recharged and a significantly faster time.

I guess I just have a hard time understanding with how cheep solar has gotten why we are still talking generators unless you have to run an AC.

That's easy--for when there is no/not enough solar. Eg we go to Rathtrevor park in the woods for four days in February, temps just above freezing. No solar in the woods. Park rule is two hours gen time morning (we don't do it at night in the dark outside)

460AH bank is about 400AH at those temps. 75 amp charger biggest can carry due to limit of size of portable gen we can carry in the RV spaces so stuck with that 75 amps limit.

75/400 is a 19% charging rate and that means Bulk ends at about 78% SOC before amps taper. After two nights next morning (day 3) we are down about 230 AH so about 43% SOC so fire up the gen for the two hours.

Get 43-78% with constant 75 amps is 140AH at 75 amps = 1 hr 56 min so get 4 minutes with tapering amps, not tapered very much. Heat loss 6%?
So AH restored is say 132 AH (which is close to what the Trimetric says so that works)

If we had LFP we still use the same AH a day. Same two hours limit with same 75 amp charger limit

= 150AH vs 132AH so the LFP gets you 18AH more in the two hours.

In our case 18AH more restored to get us to Day 4 would not make any difference, so no reason to swap to LFP. Absolutely need the gen to go at all whether LFP or FLA or whatever kind of battery.

Happens that four 6s are perfect for that job in our RV. YMMV Haven't worked out how big in AH the LFP bank would have to be to do two nights and 230AH before needing to recharge morning of Day 3 and cost of that compared with cost of four 6s.

In fact if there were sunshine you might still be doing some gen time high amps in the morning and solar low amps but with more time the rest of the day to get to full recharge or as high in SOC as possible that day.

I was always able to find a site with at least 4 hours of sun on the island. don't forget I lived there for 20 years. BC is bad for darker campsites, especialy on the island but you can work it. i bought a genny yeas ago and had solar on my camper thinking I would use the genny for an extra top up but in the 20 years of camping on the island I never had to use it. but I was also changing everything on the trailer I could to maximize battery power. so I think the difference here is in how we use our RV's. I had four 6's for a total of 470AH about 1/2 actualy usable if you want a good life span. my total draw for 24 hours in the winter on the island was under 40AH yes in the winter the solar didnt work verry good but before I installed it I could go about 5 days and just hit that 5% mark, after I could pritty much double that amount of time. in the summer before the pannels I could do about 2 weeks after the install, I never had a issue with power. with my new 5th wheel and the same battery bank just new batteries and more solar it is simular. we do use the inverter now and use the microwave once and a while and the coffee maker. In the summer now power worries , late fall and early spring same thing. if I get stuck in a site that is totaly shaded then I have about 4 days of power then I have to look at moving to some sun or plugging in, no biggy. the camper my length of stay os dramaticly incresed with the LFP. not only did I get my outsize storage back but I decreased the weight by 100 lbs. before on two 6V I could go three days with out sun in the lait fall in alberta and be tickling 50% of my capacity so 104 AH. now if I had that perfect storm again I could wait it out for 10 days if I had to. with the solar in the camper I never have to worry about power in the summer, when the sun is out it used to be full by about 1pm now before lunch I am back at 100%.

I guess it all boils down to how much power you use and what you want to do to maximize that lenght of stay factor. some people like gennys , I personaly cant stand them. nothing worse than drinking a coffee by the lake in the morning as the sun rises listing to the birds , watching the fish jump .... then the drone of a genny starts up...

[BFL13]

StirCrazy wrote:


I see what your saying. I guess if we stay in that area that skews the numbers the advantage will be on the smaller side but what if we are looking at using the genny from 65-100% how much differentce is there then. this is more where I lived with my GC batteries and solar instead of a genny. I would be at tht 60 to 70% mark in the morning and recharged by 1 to 2 pm to 100% I did drain down my new battery pack by about 45AH in the drive way an did a simulation and it was recharged by 11:38am. hardly scientific but a simular amount that needed to be recharged and a significantly faster time.

I guess I just have a hard time understanding with how cheep solar has gotten why we are still talking generators unless you have to run an AC.

That's easy--for when there is no/not enough solar. Eg we go to Rathtrevor park in the woods for four days in February, temps just above freezing. No solar in the woods. Park rule is two hours gen time morning (we don't do it at night in the dark outside)

460AH bank is about 400AH at those temps. 75 amp charger biggest can carry due to limit of size of portable gen we can carry in the RV spaces so stuck with that 75 amps limit.

75/400 is a 19% charging rate and that means Bulk ends at about 78% SOC before amps taper. After two nights next morning (day 3) we are down about 230 AH so about 43% SOC so fire up the gen for the two hours.

Get 43-78% with constant 75 amps is 140AH at 75 amps = 1 hr 56 min so get 4 minutes with tapering amps, not tapered very much. Heat loss 6%?
So AH restored is say 132 AH (which is close to what the Trimetric says so that works)

If we had LFP we still use the same AH a day. Same two hours limit with same 75 amp charger limit

= 150AH vs 132AH so the LFP gets you 18AH more in the two hours.

In our case 18AH more restored to get us to Day 4 would not make any difference, so no reason to swap to LFP. Absolutely need the gen to go at all whether LFP or FLA or whatever kind of battery.

Happens that four 6s are perfect for that job in our RV. YMMV Haven't worked out how big in AH the LFP bank would have to be to do two nights and 230AH before needing to recharge morning of Day 3 and cost of that compared with cost of four 6s.

In fact if there were sunshine you might still be doing some gen time high amps in the morning and solar low amps but with more time the rest of the day to get to full recharge or as high in SOC as possible that day.

[StirCrazy]

BFL13 wrote:
We are comparing charging efficiencies for generator time saved.

How many minutes is "significant", and how did the side by side comparison testing get measured for equal AH restored in each case? What is the heat loss allowance in the particular monitors used?

Trimetric uses 94% for FLA charging efficiency but notes some batts are better than that so they say the 94% could under-measure AH restored a bit. Also says once the batt is gassing it is crazy.

Taking a possible case where the FLA and LFP are in Bulk constant amps and charging at 60 amps for two hours using a gen to run the charger, and measuring with Trimetric for the FLA and just timing the LFP, we get:

FLA: 120AH plus 6% for heat loss = 127 minutes
LFP: 120AH minus no loss for heat = 120 minutes

I would not say the 7 minutes is significant in my scenario but it might be to somebody else's.

Of course once you try to do a side by side test that includes the gassing stage for the FLA it would be hard to show how much time difference is from earlier tapering with the FLA and how much is from heat loss. Now the time saved could be "significant" mostly from the longer time in Bulk for the LFP to a particular high SOC amount.

The Renogy monitor I am getting has something called "battery attenuation", value not given, which might be their charging efficiency built in, don't know. Your monitor might have a default for charging efficiency.

"Battery attenuation ratio: After the battery Capacity cumulatively once per cycle,The capacity value is automatically changed according to this ratio" (not well translated!)

I see what your saying. I guess if we stay in that area that skews the numbers the advantage will be on the smaller side but what if we are looking at using the genny from 65-100% how much differentce is there then. this is more where I lived with my GC batteries and solar instead of a genny. I would be at tht 60 to 70% mark in the morning and recharged by 1 to 2 pm to 100% I did drain down my new battery pack by about 45AH in the drive way an did a simulation and it was recharged by 11:38am. hardly scientific but a simular amount that needed to be recharged and a significantly faster time.

I guess I just have a hard time understanding with how cheep solar has gotten why we are still talking generators unless you have to run an AC.

[BFL13]

We are comparing charging efficiencies for generator time saved.

How many minutes is "significant", and how did the side by side comparison testing get measured for equal AH restored in each case? What is the heat loss allowance in the particular monitors used?

Trimetric uses 94% for FLA charging efficiency but notes some batts are better than that so they say the 94% could under-measure AH restored a bit. Also says once the batt is gassing it is crazy.

Taking a possible case where the FLA and LFP are in Bulk constant amps and charging at 60 amps for two hours using a gen to run the charger, and measuring with Trimetric for the FLA and just timing the LFP, we get:

FLA: 120AH plus 6% for heat loss = 127 minutes
LFP: 120AH minus no loss for heat = 120 minutes

I would not say the 7 minutes is significant in my scenario but it might be to somebody else's.

Of course once you try to do a side by side test that includes the gassing stage for the FLA it would be hard to show how much time difference is from earlier tapering with the FLA and how much is from heat loss. Now the time saved could be "significant" mostly from the longer time in Bulk for the LFP to a particular high SOC amount.

The Renogy monitor I am getting has something called "battery attenuation", value not given, which might be their charging efficiency built in, don't know. Your monitor might have a default for charging efficiency.

"Battery attenuation ratio: After the battery Capacity cumulatively once per cycle,The capacity value is automatically changed according to this ratio" (not well translated!)

[StirCrazy]

BFL13 wrote:
When off grid using generator recharge, you do 50-80s or maybe 50-90s with FLA. So it can be that there is little time advantage with LFP---very scenario dependent.

My ugly graph has 55 amps on a 220 AH bank doing a 50-80 reach 72% SOC before amps taper. So most of the 50-80 is at constant 55 amps anyway and would take the same time with LFP--except a small diff in time where the LFP does not take as much heat loss. That heat loss only gets going with the FLA above 80% SOC as noted in the Trimetric's manual wrt charging efficiency assumptions for that monitor's AH counter.

The LFP advantage in time for the same amps is in the zone above 75% say, but the gen will not be running by then anyway. Itinerant1 does more like 35-75s with his LFPs so not much time saving there over FLA times, but he uses his LFPs for other advantages mainly.

3tons hates it when I doubt he saves much time on solar recharging like he claims he gets from no heat loss on recharging. Since solar is such a low charging rate in amps per battery bank capacity, that means the FLA will get to 90% or so before amps taper and gassing starts. If the LFPs are only going to 90% too on solar as is common it seems, they have almost the same times on low amp solar as FLAs

The LFPs can be charged way faster, but "they" forget to mention that means using way more amps and that means you need more of a generator to run the bigger amps charger--not always possible to carry in an RV.

Lots of good reasons for some to choose LFPs but recharging times are not made clear how that works in different scenarios

actualy the LFP advantage is throughout the entire range. its the fact that LFP batteries have less internal resistance than flooded batteries that makes the difference, well there is more to it than just that but that keeps it simple. it may make more difference the fuller the batteries get or the warmer they get but it does make a difference everywhere in the range. I have already noticed a faster charging time from 40% to 70-80% by a significant amount.

[BFL13]

time2roll wrote:
Ok and as the lead-acid battery gets to 11.6 volts the internal resistance is high enough that the battery cannot even accept the 55 amps and again voltage will remain well above the 13.2 threshold with no boost mode. Complete failure.

Not defending WFCO.

Yes except it is the total R of the wiring and battery that determines the size of the spike.

At a lower SOC a battery will accept higher amps until the curve goes vertical as seen in my ugly graph 🙂

[time2roll]

Ok and as the lead-acid battery gets to 11.6 volts the internal resistance is high enough that the battery cannot even accept the 55 amps and again voltage will remain well above the 13.2 threshold with no boost mode. Complete failure.

The only way to consistently get boost is to load down the system with a large additional load. I have found running the microwave for 15 seconds using the inverter during initial charging works every time. How can this be a reasonable design to claim three stage charging?

[BFL13]

"The defect is that WFCO requires the voltage to sag below 13.2 volts during initial charge to trigger boost voltage. This is a nearly impossible task no matter how it is wired. In most cases it simply does not work."

It would better explain this to say the WFCO needs to see less than 13.2 as the "spike" when first turned on rather than a "sag".

If your set-up is such that there will be a spike of 1 volt when WFCO is turned on, then you have to start with the batt at 12.1 to see 13.1 at start, so it will go into Boost.

Problem is with long thin wires (higher R) and not so much of a bank in AH (hence higher R) your spike is higher, so it might even be 1.5v so now the WFCO needs to start with battery resting at 11.6 to see 13.1 after the spike.

[time2roll]

Microlite Mike wrote:
Here's a clip from the WFCO site on their 8900 series (including the 8955) converters:

Automatic three-stage charging extends the life of your battery with output voltage modes of 13.2 VDC range “float” mode, 13.6 VDC range “absorption” mode, and a 14.4 VDC range “bulk” charge mode.The WF-8955 model provides 55 Amps and a clean, constant 13.6 VDC nominal output, for reliable operation of electronics and appliances. Automatic three-stage charging extends the life of your battery with output voltage modes of 13.2 VDC range “float” mode, 13.6 VDC range “absorption” mode, and a 14.4 VDC range “bulk” charge mode. Automatic three-stage charging extends the life of your battery with output voltage modes of 13.2 VDC range “float” mode, 13.6 VDC range “absorption” mode, and a 14.4 VDC range “bulk” charge mode.

The WFCO 8955 converter is NOT a single stage converter. While many claim it never goes into boost mode, my experience with that is that batteries are often mounted far from the converter and the voltage drop across the wire from battery to converter causes a false sense that the battery is fully charged. Nothing wrong with the converter that either relocation of batteries closer, or upgrading the battery to converter wire (to min #4 awg from standard #8 awg) won't solve.

That said, my old WFCO 8955 converter section now sits on a shelf in my shop and a Progressive Dynamic's deck mount converter is located within about a foot of my batteries (both LiFePo4).

The defect is that WFCO requires the voltage to sag below 13.2 volts during initial charge to trigger boost voltage. This is a nearly impossible task no matter how it is wired. In most cases it simply does not work.

[BFL13]

SirBenji wrote:
bestconverter finally got back to me and confirmed that there is no auto desulfation or manual control with the BD 1255 MBA 55 Amp 4-Stage Main Board Replacement. The price is great on these, but I want a smart charger and something with more control.

Instead they recommended the wildkat powered by progressive dynamics.

Looks like you mount the remote pendant somewhere more accessible which gives you more control. It claims to be a true, smart 4 stage charger, which would beat the **** out of my single stage. Anyone have any experience with these???

Since you continue to insist that "desulfation" is somehow the same as "destratification", and somehow think that your WFCO is single stage, and that you want more "control", but don't want an adjustable voltage charger, I don't see how you can be helped any.

Perhaps you are not making yourself clear? We all can help once you are clear what you want.