1956 F100 what can it pull?

[dvargas2040]

I am building this truck with a 1972 Ford 429 motor with throttle body fuel injection and turbo charged, a C-6 transmission, 31 spline Ford 9" rear end with 325 gears and posi-traction. Totally boxed frame with extra cross members. Heavy duty air bags and shocks all the way round. Four wheel disc brakes. I don't know what the gross vehicle weight is and don't know with this set up what I can pull safely. I am looking at a Blackstone 26' trailer with a total weight of 9800lbs. Would this work.

[blt2ski]

Towing heavy vs light depends upon the class/gvw of the truck. A 4000 gvwr truck, towing heavy might be a 6000 lb trailer, where as light might be 1000 lbs. A class 3 or 1 ton, light might be a 6000 lb trailer, heavy 15-20K trailer! A class 8 light might be said 15-20K trailer, heavy is over 100K lbs of trailer......
Heavy to a corvette, might literally be a 1000 lb trailer, or a Harley/Honda goldwing!

Marty

[dvargas2040]

I thank you very much for all the time you have put in helping me understand what I need to look into in able to tow a trailer with my truck. I will not be adding a turbo charger after consideration from all the commenters. The trailer I'm getting is considered a light weight trailer by the manufacturer. We will probably not go with the heaviest weight for the half ton series but look at something a little lighter that Outdoors RV carries for my half ton truck. The best information/suggestion I have received is the Gear Vendors. I am really happy I was able to find this out through this forum. I will definitely post pictures when the project is complete sometime in April. Thanks to all for the help with my original question.

[BenK]

Am trying to help...and save you some money & heart ache...

Do hope your builder and engine shop have a good line of communications,
as they will NEED to talk a LOT

dvargas2040 wrote:
My builder has been restoring cars for over 30 years and specializes in building classics, hot rods and muscle cars, frame off restorations.

How many have they built for towing heavy?

There is a BIG difference between a hot rod/muscle car to towing
heavy

The motor is being sent out to an engine building machine shop that specializes in building the motor to customer specs. Which in my case will be towing not racing.

What questions did this builder ask you?

• Octane
• HP Desired
• Gearing for both the tranny and diff
• Tire Dia

My engine builder would ask those question and much more before taking
on the job

Has the tranny builder talked to the engine builder? The engine balance vs
the flex plate very important...among many other mating issues

Touch on the TC again...HotRod/MuscleCar really doesn't need a locking TC,
but towing heavy does. Is there one that will mate between the engine
and tranny correctly? How will the locking function be managed? no
computer, right? So vacuum or preset RPM to turn on/off the locking TC?

Hope a new, built radiator, as IIRC...back in the 50's...the radiators
did NOT have in-tank ATF radiator...




The turbo is something I thought I might add on after the truck was completed to help with towing, it is not something my engine builder recommended.

Tell your engine builder that now and betcha he will ask for a definitive
Yes/no, as most of the engine innards changes with that answer. If
they ordered stuff...either pay for another set or restocking charges

Ditto the cam

The builder will need to work with the body guy to figure out how
they will plumb the engine oil to the turbo(s) or a separate oil system
will be installed

As will the body guy need to know if there is enough room under the
hood for the raised TBI/air-filter assembly. They might have figured
on a high raise intake manifold, which will exacerbate that hood
clearance problem

Might (should) tell you that you will need an inter-cooler for that
turbo and where to preset the wastegate(s)...they will need to be tuned
to the pump gas & towing vs ambient/etc conditions

The body shop will also need to know, as the room for the turbo(s)
will need to be checked. As will be the floor board heating problems
that most all after market turbos cause

[dvargas2040]

My builder has been restoring cars for over 30 years and specializes in building classics, hot rods and muscle cars, frame off restorations. The motor is being sent out to an engine building machine shop that specializes in building the motor to customer specs. Which in my case will be towing not racing. The turbo is something I thought I might add on after the truck was completed to help with towing, it is not something my engine builder recommended.

[dvargas2040]

parker.rowe As to you comment regarding the weight of the trailer that I wanted in the beginning was 9800 pounds. Realistically the dry weight is 7750 pounds with a max trailer weight of 9995. The manufacture claims it can be towed with a half ton truck. Since my truck is a half ton I figured I could pull this trailer with no problems. After reconsideration I feel that this might be too much for my truck to handle based on comments. Now I'm thinking of a smaller lighter trailer with a max trailer weight of 6600 pounds. They say to buy your third trailer first so we are looking to find a balance between comfort and safety.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

Great post Ben as was the one before. 🙂

It's going to take a lot of engineering to pull this off. Does the OP's builder have the engineering background to do this? I have no idea? I sure hope so because it's a cool project.

[BenK]

Am assuming (always dangerous on these forums) that your builder(s) have
the proper engineering for the "WHOLE PACKAGE" and to your specifications...

Also assuming you are not into that level of detail engineering and just
talking about the stuff/level you like...and nothing wrong with that and
repeat...like your pictures and am envious...wishing my project gets
started soon...

But...the details of engineering is what most are talking about and
too often taken out of context of the 'whole system'...

Like yes/no on the turbo...says to me...that the engine builder needs
to know before they start spending money, as yes/no changes lots of every
expensive stuff...not to mention the machining, assembly, etc of just
the engine itself, but the other components that are bolted to the
engine *AND* working with it

Simple stuff like the compression ratio changes with a yes/no and that
brings in lots of other components. Like the crank, rods, pistons to
the head work and a BIG ETC

Another is the simple comparison of an EcoBoost vs your build also has
tons of engineering needed as mention above.

A simple thing like intake manifold & all the runners is air/fueled and
the other is just plain air. Meaning the charge stuffed into the CC
will not ignite easily with a direct injected system vs your planned
TBI (air/fuel mixture in the manifold).

The cam also changes between NA vs forced fed, as does the the rest
of the intake/exhaust systems.

Comparing a +60 year old vs a current gen has +60 years worth of trial
and error engineering and fraught with risks and so many hidden to
us outsiders from the design teams

Many more and actually everything on this project (again, love these
but know it must be engineered well) and will just touch on the disc
brakes the OP mentioned

There are disc brakes and then there are disc brakes...

If from a 'car', then they were designed for both lighter duty and
spins much faster. Most are designed for tires in the 21" to 24" dia
range. They also depend on the air flow from a much lower to the
ground vehicle (and it looks like you will have it car height, not
truck height).

Some have hidden ducting and that only works if the ground clearance
is in the 2" range and not with a trucks range nearing 12". It would
or might be starved for enough 'good' air flow

Wish you well...that your builder(s) have the proper engineering and good luck!

[parker_rowe]

dvargas2040 wrote:
So in comparison to the Lightning which is similar to my truck in an updated form, the Lightning is about 18" longer and has a wheel base of 10" longer and a curb weight of 4670. It can pull a 5000 pound trailer. My truck in stock form weighs 3100 pounds. Since my truck is a little more beefed up I am guessing and hoping a tow weight of 8000 pounds would be OK. We are reconsidering the turbo option and will just see what the Gear Vendors will do for us.

I think that is the point everyone is making.

A Lightning has:
-a 10" longer wheelbase (quite a bit in the car world)
-1500lbs more curb weight
-rated to tow 3-4000lbs less then your target

Your initial question mentioned a 9800lb trailer which is even heavier yet!

Now...it sounds like you will have plenty of power and brakes to do the job, and you can easily get it to tow level with the right springs, air bags, and a WDH. It will do it no doubt.
However you may find it is a stressful towing experience once cars and semi's are passing on the freeway or you get a good crosswind.

You can definitely try it out and decide...sounds like you will be building the truck either way!

[dvargas2040]

So in comparison to the Lightning which is similar to my truck in an updated form, the Lightning is about 18" longer and has a wheel base of 10" longer and a curb weight of 4670. It can pull a 5000 pound trailer. My truck in stock form weighs 3100 pounds. Since my truck is a little more beefed up I am guessing and hoping a tow weight of 8000 pounds would be OK. We are reconsidering the turbo option and will just see what the Gear Vendors will do for us.

[LIKE2BUILD]

SoCalDesertRider wrote:
I think it would be really cool to build a '73-'79 F350 Camper Special, with a 7.3 Powerstroke...

Ooh, nice idea I love that Ford body style. Hmm, classic 70's F-series body style with a 7.3 PowerStroke would be quite a combination.

[SoCalDesertRid1]

I think it would be really cool to build a '73-'79 F350 Camper Special, with a 7.3 Powerstroke, and haul the '56 F100, built as a hot rod with a supercharged 239 flathead V8, in the back of a gooseneck race trailer with front living quarters...

[parker_rowe]

Interesting thread.

A few thoughts:

About the turbo...I would skip it. I love turbos, but they concern me in an off the wall combinations like this that will be seeing more than just full throttle runs for short distances.

Tuning an aftermarket turbo setup on an aftermarket fuel injection setup is fine. People do it all the time to go fast. You can get good drivability and make sure the fueling is spot on in transition to full throttle and at full throttle.

Tuning for the high loads of towing at lower throttle openings, and when the boost builds because you hit a hill towing 9K, it entirely different. You will have overheating, detonation, fueling issues, overall it will be a huge pain.

If you have a GOOD and DEDICATED tuner that you are ready to pay, it is entirely doable. I'm just not sure its worth the gain. That 429 will make plenty of power to tow that rig with the right cam and gears. Also, you can easily swap the short block for a 460 and use all your other parts if you need a bit more torque.

The gear vendors is a fine idea, just for the overdrive. That will let you run more gear without spinning it to the moon.

As for the rest, my main concern would be the weight and wheelbase of the tow vehicle (as stated by others). I'm not one to freak out about exact tow weights and such, but that is a lot of trailer for a short truck, and it is 2-3 times your trucks curb weight. That will give the trailer a lot of control of the truck no matter how much brakes and power you have.

[BenK]

This thread is of interest, as that is one option for me when my Silverado
finally dies or I won't rebuild it anymore...

To the OP...the fabricator loves/hates changes.

Loves them as they are additional $$$$ each time

Hates them as the total design gets messed up and the customer too
many times complains that it has some hurky-jerky something or other

Take forced fed (turbo) and comparing your build to an Ecoboost.

Hope you understand that forced fed small displacement Ecoboost has it behave
like a big block. That 3.5L is forced fed up to or maybe over 7L-8L of
air/fuel
Surface area is one key component for good heat rejection rates and
the tiny 3.5L must have other measures to do what a much larger big
block has.

So that tiny block has the energy of a big block. Heck, even the squish
area is tiny compared to what it would be on a big block. So Ford has
done most of the things needed to make it survive a long and good life
That is still to be seen in my book...am impressed at the stuff
found to date...but it is a whole system and only one thing in the food
chain can cause havoc...

Since you are building what appears to be a street big block and force
feeding it...it will might have double or more the air/fuel in there
vs a naturally aspired ICE would. For street racing, the mass inertia
and holding capacity would/might be fine, but for hours of towing...there
needs to other measures taken/added

Am assuming your engine builder has taken all that into account and
that you plan to tow with it. Towing is in many cases tougher on a
ICE than street racing. The hours and hours at very high to WOT throttle
settings takes it's toll over time. Thermal management system(s) were
NOT that good back in those days and your builders must understand
that to make updates & new systems to manage the heat rejection system(s)

A min of a 'continuous duty' 200 amp alternator would be my choice
to supply power to all of the fans and pump motors for my heat rejection
system(s)

On that, why many are asking what the tranny is and suggestion of the
Gear Vendors, of which is in my plans for my 7.4L Suburban some day
Am assuming the automatic you are having built will have a locking TC,
if not, then another issue to be taken care of

Ditto the diff ratio, as it all factors from the ICE crank shaft all
the way to pavement.

Have your engine builder provide the cam's curve. Decide where you
wish to tow at and that will or should be a range of RPMs. I tow to
torque and boy racer to HP...ask the engine builder what that means

The final ratio will depend on which one and if both, the Gear Vendors
offers a double over drive final and a splitter between each gear

Cool project !!! am envious !!!

[SoCalDesertRid1]

The Ecoboost V6 makes alot of power for it's size and gets great unloaded fuel mileage, both because of it's turbo, and also because of it's computer controlled, direct cylinder fuel injection system. Don't expect anywhere near the same results with just a turbo and a carbeurator or basic aftermarket kit throttle body fuel injector unit on an old school pushrod 2-valve V8.