2020 sales

[thomas201]

I have not seen this posted, but I have been gone a bit.

https://www.dieselforum.org/vehiclesales/u-s-vehicle-sales-dashboard

In the US of A, we sold almost 14.5 million vehicles, about 1.5 million were alternate fuel and of that about 659 thousand were diesel. The rest of the 1.5 million were electric, hybrid, and so on.

In the 3/4 ton and up, Ford, Ram and the GM twins (added together) all sold over 100,000 each. The number of Sprinter diesels really surprised me.

As Arte Johnson used to say: "Verrrry interesting" but I hope not a repeat.

[blt2ski]

larry barnhart wrote:
I never felt our 05 duramax needed a 6 speed. But if ya never drive one maybe it would be better. I never drive a newer truck than I have unless I am thinking of a trade. Happy is the best. chevman

Larry,
I would have liked a 6th DIF in my 05, along with 410 gears. BUT with this said, I do mostly city driving, so having lower starting gears us better for me. Even 4.33 with a DOD put me at about the same final ratio iirc vs the 5 so 5sp.
Realty, the ally 2200?!? Has the same gears as asian dodge used. that's in reality, best setup from my driving style. Too bad we don't get multiple tranny, gear ratio and HP/Torque spec options like some mdt setups give you.

Marty

[larry_barnhart]

I never felt our 05 duramax needed a 6 speed. But if ya never drive one maybe it would be better. I never drive a newer truck than I have unless I am thinking of a trade. Happy is the best. chevman

[Cummins12V98]

FishOnOne wrote:
Ram doesn't need a 10 speed transmission until cummins12V98 buy's one and then the raves begin. You know the drill! :B

:B

[FishOnOne]

Ram doesn't need a 10 speed transmission until cummins12V98 buy's one and then the raves begin. You know the drill! :B

[ksss]

The points made about offering to different transmissions are spot on I think. It doesnt make a lot of sense both economically and conveying the message the cheaper tranny isn't sufficient. The Ram may actually be a better truck with a ten speed. The change the ten made in the GM trucks is really pretty amazing. I know that is not a direct comparison to the Ram truck, but I am not sure why a Ram owner would be against having a ten speed especially if you have driven one. GM has done an amazing job dialing in that tranny, almost feels like a CVT it is so smooth.

[Cummins12V98]

"Also, by offering the Aisin (which has the same 6-speeds as the 68RFE"

Technically true but the fact is the AISIN has lower starting gears and easily get's my 35k rolling on steep grades.

[otrfun]

Bionic Man wrote:
Put me in the camp that RAM absolutely needs to change to an 8 or 10 speed. It will drive better. It will be better for marketing. And it would allow them to simplify to one transmission for both 2500 and 3500 trucks, and get them competitive power levels for those that buy a 2500.

An upgraded transmission would probably be enough to put me in the market to upgrade.

Good point.

Not sure what Ram gains by offering two different drivetrains. The base level 6-speed 68RFE/Cummins SO offers less torque/HP/gears than Ford & Chevy, but is priced roughly the same.

The 6-speed Aisin/Cummins HO option has an overall MSRP that's *higher* than Ford & Chevy, even though it's overall performance/capability is arguably less (less HP; equivalent torque to Ford; but no 10-speed tranny).

Also, by offering the Aisin (which has the same 6-speeds as the 68RFE), Ram is inferring the 68RFE (which makes up the vast majority of Ram's sales) is lacking in some way. Not a good marketing strategy IMO.

I think Ram would be much better served offering one drivetrain (like Ford & Chevy) that's competitive across the board. It would certainly reduce production costs and simplify marketing.

[Cummins12V98]

"To a point I agree. I've been very happy with the 6-sp in our Cummins. However, my comment is more about "sales and marketing" than raw performance."

I agree most people "THINK" they need more gears. Gas pots and the V8 Diesels may find usefulness in the 8-10 but i can tell you another two or 4 gears won't make a hill of beans difference with the CUMMINS.

Bionic, you don't have the AISIN with it's very low starting gears. It truly makes a difference over the 68RFE especially with the 3.42's. When my truck downshifts it's a measly 250 rpm's between gears.

The AISIN is what they call a "Bullet proof" trans, I will stick with that.

[Bionic_Man]

Put me in the camp that RAM absolutely needs to change to an 8 or 10 speed. It will drive better. It will be better for marketing. And it would allow them to simplify to one transmission for both 2500 and 3500 trucks, and get them competitive power levels for those that buy a 2500.

An upgraded transmission would probably be enough to put me in the market to upgrade.

[FishOnOne]

otrfun wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

otrfun wrote:
GM HD trucks outsold Ford HD trucks by a huge margin in Q4 2020.

GM (Chevy/GMC) HD trucks 69,500
Ford HD trucks 47,610
Ram HD trucks 35,477

I find it interesting that Ford has been steadily losing marketshare to Ram for a number of years. However, if Ram doesn't get an 8-10 sp tranny bolted to their Cummins soon (not to mention a 100% cab update), I can very easily see this trend reversing.

The CUMMINS does not need more gears.

To a point I agree. I've been very happy with the 6-sp in our Cummins.

However, my comment is more about "sales and marketing" than raw performance.

There's a big reason why the Big 3 are in a torque war with their diesels. High torque numbers sell more trucks. Same applies to the number of transmission gears. The average Joe has been led to believe more transmission gears equates to better fuel economy and a smoother, more efficient driving experience---doesn't matter whether it's true or not.

Bottom line, it's much cheaper for Ram to bolt an 10 speed tranny to their Cummins and let the number "10" speak for itself, then spend millions and millions of marketing dollars trying to convince everyone their 6-speed tranny is fine as-is.

Marketing sometimes has nothing to do performance. Sometimes it's all about perception.

Ram didn't need to bump up the torque in their diesel trucks.... But they did!

[otrfun]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

otrfun wrote:
GM HD trucks outsold Ford HD trucks by a huge margin in Q4 2020.

GM (Chevy/GMC) HD trucks 69,500
Ford HD trucks 47,610
Ram HD trucks 35,477

I find it interesting that Ford has been steadily losing marketshare to Ram for a number of years. However, if Ram doesn't get an 8-10 sp tranny bolted to their Cummins soon (not to mention a 100% cab update), I can very easily see this trend reversing.

The CUMMINS does not need more gears.

To a point I agree. I've been very happy with the 6-sp in our Cummins.

However, my comment is more about "sales and marketing" than raw performance.

There's a big reason why the Big 3 are in a torque war with their diesels. High torque numbers sell more trucks. Same applies to the number of transmission gears. The average Joe has been led to believe more transmission gears equates to better fuel economy and a smoother, more efficient driving experience---doesn't matter whether it's true or not.

Ram will eventually discover it's cheaper to bolt an 10 speed tranny to their Cummins and let the number "10" speak for itself, then spend millions and millions of marketing dollars trying to convince everyone their 6-speed tranny is as good as Ford & Chevy's 10-speed.

Marketing sometimes has nothing to do performance. Sometimes it's all about perception.

[deltabravo]

thomas201 wrote:
...Arte Johnson...

Who dat?

[Cummins12V98]

otrfun wrote:
GM HD trucks outsold Ford HD trucks by a huge margin in Q4 2020.

GM (Chevy/GMC) HD trucks 69,500
Ford HD trucks 47,610
Ram HD trucks 35,477

I find it interesting that Ford has been steadily losing marketshare to Ram for a number of years. However, if Ram doesn't get an 8-10 sp tranny bolted to their Cummins soon (not to mention a 100% cab update), I can very easily see this trend reversing.

The CUMMINS does not need more gears.

[ksss]

Ford Super-Duty Diesel Comm Diesel Pickup 161,376 185,460
Ram Ram Pickup 2500/3500 Diesel Comm Diesel Pickup 114,067 122,525
Chevrolet Silverado 2500/3500 Diesel Comm Diesel Pickup 74,173 99,891
GMC Sierra 2500/3500 Diesel Comm Diesel Pickup 43,421 82,475

That didn't copy as I hoped it would. The 2020 totals for GMC is 82475/Chevy 99891/ Ram 122525/Ford 185460.

GM's combined truck sales 182366 Ford is 185460.

[ford_truck_guy]

ksss wrote:
At the end of 2020, GM was only 3K sales behind Ford who was the sales leader (I am not aware of GM ever being that close to selling the same amount of Diesel trucks as Ford). Some may not like the looks of the latest Gen GM HD's but that doesn't seem to be negatively affecting sales. I think this is what happens when you finally build an HD truck with a spec sheet on par with the other two. Too bad it too so long for GM to connect those dots. The internet has been saying it to GM for years.

Wait.... maybe I am missing something??????

Ford Diesel - 161,376
GM Diesel combined - 117,594

I think that is a bit more than 3k :h