5th Wheel Toy Hauler Empty Pin Weight Ratings

colliehauler wrote:

rjstractor wrote:

otrfun wrote:
Payload sticker on our '16 Ram 3500 SRW is 3964 lbs. That leaves us with 164-364 lbs. of remaining payload. For some this may not be a big deal, but for us, way too close for comfort. Not that I'd ever trust a dealer, but as expected they said I have more than enough truck for 2500-2700 lbs, of empty pin weight, and even went so far as to say these units get pulled all the time with 3/4 tons. Well, that may be true, but there's no way you can make the numbers work on a calculator.

I think a lot hinges on what you plan to carry in the garage of the toy hauler. Everything you add behind the axles will lighten the pin weight, everything ahead will add to it. Big difference between hauling bicycles or Harleys in the garage, the Harleys would actually lighten the pin significantly.

Not as much as you think. The axles on my TH are almost under the garage. My water tank is foward of the axle, over 800# when full. The fuel tank 32 gallons is behind the rear axle. Just about everything you put in it adds to the pin weight and it adds up fast.

And water weighs a lot more than gas per gallon.

rjstractor wrote:

otrfun wrote:
Payload sticker on our '16 Ram 3500 SRW is 3964 lbs. That leaves us with 164-364 lbs. of remaining payload. For some this may not be a big deal, but for us, way too close for comfort. Not that I'd ever trust a dealer, but as expected they said I have more than enough truck for 2500-2700 lbs, of empty pin weight, and even went so far as to say these units get pulled all the time with 3/4 tons. Well, that may be true, but there's no way you can make the numbers work on a calculator.

I think a lot hinges on what you plan to carry in the garage of the toy hauler. Everything you add behind the axles will lighten the pin weight, everything ahead will add to it. Big difference between hauling bicycles or Harleys in the garage, the Harleys would actually lighten the pin significantly.

Not as much as you think. The axles on my TH are almost under the garage. My water tank is foward of the axle, over 800# when full. The fuel tank 32 gallons is behind the rear axle. Just about everything you put in it adds to the pin weight and it adds up fast.

You have a lot longer lever arm forward of the axles then you do behind. So adding 500lb to the back garage is NOT going to cancel out 500lbs in the front storage area.

otrfun wrote:
Payload sticker on our '16 Ram 3500 SRW is 3964 lbs. That leaves us with 164-364 lbs. of remaining payload. For some this may not be a big deal, but for us, way too close for comfort. Not that I'd ever trust a dealer, but as expected they said I have more than enough truck for 2500-2700 lbs, of empty pin weight, and even went so far as to say these units get pulled all the time with 3/4 tons. Well, that may be true, but there's no way you can make the numbers work on a calculator.

I think a lot hinges on what you plan to carry in the garage of the toy hauler. Everything you add behind the axles will lighten the pin weight, everything ahead will add to it. Big difference between hauling bicycles or Harleys in the garage, the Harleys would actually lighten the pin significantly.

While not always the best way to look at things. That door sticker is a warrenty rating only. If you are a few hundred lbs over, more than likely nothing will happen. Yes there are some on here that will say ALL holy toledo will break lose.....but....
Also look at what you have payload wise on the RA of the truck. If you load say 3500 lbs on it, will it go over the grawr? if yes, then in reality, your 3964 lbs of payload is borderline if you can handle as much pin weight as you want. If you have say 4100-4200 lbs on the RA, another 300 on the FA, Loading 4000-4200 is distributed correctly, will not be an issue.
BUT, with this in mind. Back when GM first introduced the D/A combos, many folks on here bought 2500 gms, put a max wt 5W behind them. They were at or above the RA limit, and were bottoming out the rig. They then lighted the pin wt by putting more stuff behind the axels, lowing the % into the 15-18% range......did not like how it pulled still. Went to a dually, increased pin wt to 20-22%, enjoyed the pull etc......

Just a warning per say. Look at ALL the numbers, not just one item! you may be good for the one, but way over on another, which will be a bigger factor than the one you are worried about.

Marty

transferred wrote:

otrfun wrote:

azdryheat wrote:
Loaded the way we travel and nothing in the garage my Voltage pin weight is 3500 pounds, per the CAT scale. Brochure said the pin weight is 3000 pounds. Haven't weighed it with my Harley in the garage but I suspect it might lighten the pin a bit. My truck's payload is 5,000 pounds so I'm not much worried what the pin weight is.

Thanks for the helpful info. We're also looking at a few Voltage toy haulers. Focusing on the small, mid-size, double axle units to try and keep our pin weight at 2500 lbs. or lower. Our TV is a '16 Ram 3500 SRW. We can go higher than 2500 lbs., but would rather not.

Out of curiosity, why? Is it to make room for passengers in the cab and gear in the bed? Or safety concerns? The new 3500s have a 4k+ payload rating. I recently GN pulled a tractor with mine for 800 miles that had me a hair over 4k on pin weight and it pulled very securely. That said, it was only me in the cab so little in the way of additional wight that would put me over. For the record, I'm just curious, not judging at all as everyone should tow to whatever weight they see fit (unless it's grossly overweight).

Fair question.

Many of the 5th wheel, double-axle toy haulers (with 11-12' garages) we're looking at have empty pin weights around 2500-2700 lbs. The general consensus is, which makes complete sense, this number will increase once the rig is loaded. So let's add 500 lbs. Add another 300 lbs. for the OEM 5th wheel mounting plate and hitch assembly, 150 lbs. for a passenger, 150 lbs. for misc. gear. Grand total is now 3600-3800 lbs. Adds up quick!

Payload sticker on our '16 Ram 3500 SRW is 3964 lbs. That leaves us with 164-364 lbs. of remaining payload. For some this may not be a big deal, but for us, way too close for comfort. Not that I'd ever trust a dealer, but as expected they said I have more than enough truck for 2500-2700 lbs, of empty pin weight, and even went so far as to say these units get pulled all the time with 3/4 tons. Well, that may be true, but there's no way you can make the numbers work on a calculator.

Bottom line, for our comfort level, it looks like we need to focus on the smallest, 28-30 ft. 5th wheel toy haulers with pin weights much closer to 2000 lbs. No garages, but looking at it from the positive side, at least they're less expensive--lol!

For those who will suggest we should have purchased a dually, no regrets there. This truck will also be one of our daily drivers---we had to draw a line of usability and practicality somewhere.

otrfun wrote:

azdryheat wrote:
Loaded the way we travel and nothing in the garage my Voltage pin weight is 3500 pounds, per the CAT scale. Brochure said the pin weight is 3000 pounds. Haven't weighed it with my Harley in the garage but I suspect it might lighten the pin a bit. My truck's payload is 5,000 pounds so I'm not much worried what the pin weight is.

Thanks for the helpful info. We're also looking at a few Voltage toy haulers. Focusing on the small, mid-size, double axle units to try and keep our pin weight at 2500 lbs. or lower. Our TV is a '16 Ram 3500 SRW. We can go higher than 2500 lbs., but would rather not.

Out of curiosity, why? Is it to make room for passengers in the cab and gear in the bed? Or safety concerns? The new 3500s have a 4k+ payload rating. I recently GN pulled a tractor with mine for 800 miles that had me a hair over 4k on pin weight and it pulled very securely. That said, it was only me in the cab so little in the way of additional wight that would put me over. For the record, I'm just curious, not judging at all as everyone should tow to whatever weight they see fit (unless it's grossly overweight).

In a real world your NOT going to load everything in the back of the TH. So expect loaded pin weight to be higher than the manufacturers posted dry pin weight.

azdryheat wrote:
Loaded the way we travel and nothing in the garage my Voltage pin weight is 3500 pounds, per the CAT scale. Brochure said the pin weight is 3000 pounds. Haven't weighed it with my Harley in the garage but I suspect it might lighten the pin a bit. My truck's payload is 5,000 pounds so I'm not much worried what the pin weight is.

Thanks for the helpful info. We're also looking at a few Voltage toy haulers. Focusing on the small, mid-size, double axle units to try and keep our pin weight at 2500 lbs. or lower. Our TV is a '16 Ram 3500 SRW. We can go higher than 2500 lbs., but would rather not.

OMG, your TV is a Freightliner! I'd venture to say pin weight is the least of your worries--lol!