8L spark ignition V8 now available - Freightliner S2G

[noteven]

What is the price per gallon of propane Autogas road fuel where you travel?

This vehicle might be an interesting base to start a "Super C", "truck conversion" or "toter" build on...

Propane aka LPG aka Autogas

vs the fuel cost per mile/depreciation of a gasohol truck

vs the risk of failure of complicated and expensive diesel emission systems

GM V8 8 litre of torques through an Allison trans with shifter on the column

Air ride/air brakes available for lots of stoppage...


Powertrain Integration 8L V8

Freightliner S2G Truck 8L V8

[ktmrfs]

Gdetrailer wrote:

nevadanick wrote:
These trucks will go to municipalities that dont care about the cost, only being low emission. They will also go to companies that will get tax credits for being low emission.

X2!

That IS the "market" that propane powered vehicles are designed and marketed to. It has nothing to do with perceived lower cost of fuel, it is all about the "feel goodness" of "cleaner air".

While some cities and municipalities may see some "benefit" in the clean air department which may be needed they will be spending much more money on fuel since they will get LESS mileage..

In a nutshell, they WILL BURN MORE CARBON BASED FOSSIL FUEL (remember, propane IS a "leftover" from processing FOSSIL based petroleum oil, natural gas and YES even the wet gas from the Marcellus shale deposits).

It is not saving money nor the Earth.. But hey if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy, buy one and report back to us and let us know how much better you feel.

propane (and natural gas) does have the advantage of lower CO2 emission per BTU output. It has a higher H to C ratio than heavier fuels (gasoline, diesel etc). so while it is a carbon based fuel, it does have lower carbon based emission than some other alternatives. natural gas is the clear winner at 115 lbs of CO2/million BTU vs 140 for propane, 160 for gas or diesel.

Coal, being almost all carbon is 200lbs

[Gdetrailer]

nevadanick wrote:
These trucks will go to municipalities that dont care about the cost, only being low emission. They will also go to companies that will get tax credits for being low emission.

X2!

That IS the "market" that propane powered vehicles are designed and marketed to. It has nothing to do with perceived lower cost of fuel, it is all about the "feel goodness" of "cleaner air".

While some cities and municipalities may see some "benefit" in the clean air department which may be needed they will be spending much more money on fuel since they will get LESS mileage..

In a nutshell, they WILL BURN MORE CARBON BASED FOSSIL FUEL (remember, propane IS a "leftover" from processing FOSSIL based petroleum oil, natural gas and YES even the wet gas from the Marcellus shale deposits).

It is not saving money nor the Earth.. But hey if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy, buy one and report back to us and let us know how much better you feel.

[nevadanick]

These trucks will go to municipalities that dont care about the cost, only being low emission. They will also go to companies that will get tax credits for being low emission.

[noteven]

Thanks everyone for your responses.

[Gdetrailer]

06Fargo wrote:


Anyway auto propane is selling for US $1.75/USgallon - $2.00/USgallon here

It might be "cheaper" in your neck of the woods BUT you ARE completely FORGETTING the mere tiny fact that propane contains LESS BTUs per gallon than gasoline.

You will get easily 20% LESS mileage with propane than what you would get with gasoline.

Put it another way..

You will use 1.2 gallons of propane compared to 1 gallon of gasoline to do the same job.

That means your actual cost to operate said vehicle will be closer to $2.10-$2.40 range. This pretty much wipes out any "advantage" in price when you take that into account..

Additionally a propane powered vehicle will not have some advantages like high low end torque you get from a diesel engine. What this means is given equivalent work between a propane engine and a diesel and the diesel will win hands down over all in lower fuel consumption which means fuel savings is zero for propane.

If it makes you feel good about using propane for on the road use, that's fine with me.. But you are not going to save tons of money in the process.

Do keep in mind, in the US we DO pay something called ROAD TAXES which are a combination of FEDERAL AND STATE taxes for on road fuels.. That IS figured into the price on the pump so when folks post the prices they will vary greatly from state to state.

Propane in most states is sold pretty much strictly for HOME HEATING usage.. If you buy a propane powered vehicle for on road usage here, you WILL be evading taxes if you do not report it AND PAY THE TAXES DUE.

It is taken seriously on diesel where our heating oil, kerosene AND OFF ROAD DIESEL FUELS ARE DYED.. Get caught with dyed fuel in your truck tank and you get to play with the Feds.. Not cheap or fun to say the least.. Diesel owners can at any time be pulled over and their tanks CAN be "dipped"..

In my case PA combination of Fed and state road taxes are about $.80 per gallon which is the second highest in the US for gas taxes..

[noteven]

BenK yoo hoo the subject of the thread is over here beside this Freightliner truck with the 8 litre propane engine all figured out...

But we should award 500 points for the coal and cow dung factoid 🙂

Anyway auto propane is selling for US $1.75/USgallon - $2.00/USgallon here

Regular gasohol is US $2.46/USgallon.

Whitehorse, Yukon is US $ 2.29/USgallon for auto propane

Regular gasohol is US $ 2.80/USgallon

[Gdetrailer]

2003silverado wrote:
I'm paying 1.39/gallon for propane for home heating. Add the road tax to that and it would be close to the price of gas at the current time. When gas goes back up to 4/gallon it would make more since.

Propane goes up and down just like gasoline and diesel with supply and demand. The ONLY time I have seen propane cheaper than gasoline was when gasoline shot up over $5 per gallon and even then Propane shot up to nearly the same as gasoline if you account for ROAD TAXES.

Why?

Simple, Propane is DELIVERED via TRUCKS that USE DIESEL FUEL, cost of diesel goes up and the propane supplier must ALSO raise the cost of propane in order to not go bankrupt..

Propane prices also tend to SPIKE during winter time in areas not served by Natural gas..

Propane is also a "by product" of oil and natural gas production which many years ago was a waste by product.. So the cost of gas and oil production also affects the price of propane..

[BenK]

Add that most all sewage treatment plants will be REQUIRED to convert the flare off
to CNG soon...by the EPA

My city is one of the first in California and is in the process of digging the
foundation. In the next couple years, a fleet of CNG fueled vehicles will be
purchased. First will be work pickups and then cars for the rest of the city
staffers pool of vehicles

This is where one of my Skunk Works teams invented solid state compressors
under my direction. No moving parts vs traditional piston compression.
We were working on super computing and super conduction...the business
model was over $48Billion/year, but a computer corporation's exec staff
said no dice...we are NOT in that business...even though several times more
than the current $13Billion/year revenues at that time...

Since N America has one of the largest natural gas sources in the world...makes
sense for us to use it as fuel for our vehicles and power plants

[2003silverado]

I'm paying 1.39/gallon for propane for home heating. Add the road tax to that and it would be close to the price of gas at the current time. When gas goes back up to 4/gallon it would make more since.

[BenK]

Okay if you will only travel between places that sell and know HOW2
account for road/etc taxes

Looked at it for my K5, but not enough places where I drove, so dropped
that idea

Higher octane, so can bump up the compression and even forced fed easier
than gas or diesel

Since lower BTU content, must have larger tanks and those tanks weigh
more because of the high PSI it must contain

Propane is no longer 'cheap' compared to gasoline and diesel, so toss
out that benefit. Locally, it used to be about 20% the cost of gasoline and
even lower than diesel...then the road taxes that some dealer will
add to the bill...that is the current state of affairs for electric...that
will change once they figure out HOW2 apply road taxes...me thinks
during registration where they have you by the you know whats...

It is cleaner and is one of the automotive fuels in India...where they
have gone almost 100% away from crude oil based automotive fuels...still
one of the dirtiest smog areas in the world...they burn coal and cow
dung for heat & electric power

[Gdetrailer]

06Fargo wrote:
What is the price per gallon of propane Autogas road fuel where you travel?

This vehicle might be an interesting base to start a "Super C", "truck conversion" or "toter" build on...

Propane aka LPG aka Autogas

vs the fuel cost per mile/depreciation of a gasohol truck

vs the risk of failure of complicated and expensive diesel emission systems

GM V8 8 litre of torques through an Allison trans with shifter on the column

Air ride/air brakes available for lots of stoppage...


Powertrain Integration 8L V8

Freightliner S2G Truck 8L V8

Last time I refilled a 30 lb propane cylinder a year ago it cost me $2.85 per gallon.. That price would not include road taxes..

Not sure of current prices but I suspect it HASN'T gone down as much as gasoline has..

Currently my gas prices are $2.13-$2.15 per gallon including ALL ROAD TAXES. Currently PA has nearly $.80 per gallon in road taxes..

So if I was able to buy gasoline without road taxes it would be $1.33-$1.35 per gallon..

That makes propane TWICE the price of a gallon of gasoline AND you take a hit in the ENERGY (BTUs) contained in Propane when comparing it to gasoline (that means you WILL use MORE propane per mile to do the same work as a gallon of gasoline).

Additionally finding places to refill a propane powered vehicle while on the road is problematic at best (there are less propane stations than gas stations and many propane suppliers have short hrs often closing business by 4PM daily or so and not open on Sat or Sun )..

That design is really destined for short haul businesses which have their own refill station or a deal with a local propane supplier(s)in a small defined area. In a nutshell a business that is willing to create their own fueling infrastructure.

It is no different than cities switching to CNG buses, fleet vehicles and such.

Not really something the average Joe Driver is wanting or will want but it does have some niche market potential.

[noteven]

This truck is fuelled by propane not CNG - compressed natural gas

[rjstractor]

Will be interesting to see how this thread goes. A few years ago I posted about a John Deere CNG engine with spark plugs designed for the medium duty truck market and got flamed for four pages about how real trucks don't have spark plugs. 😉

[Perrysburg_Dodg]

FCA has switched all of the over the road tractors to CNG and will be switching the entire fleet over the next two years.
LINK


Don