Advice on Camper Construction

SideHillSoup wrote:
Aluminum welds just don't stand up as good as steel welds in our case. Now because the truck suspension is taking the beating you might be ok.

Might be but who makes a steel framed TC?

Like Flip is saying - welding is a skill.
Just like driving >> almost anybody can do it, but only few come to perfection.
Weld is thicker than the connected material, so theoretically good, well penetrated weld should be strongest point in the construction.
I never got to aluminium welding, but from what I heard, just like heat-treated steel it need to have certain temperature to make good weld.
Most of builders don't observe the criteria and cold welds, with poor penetration are just a bit better than bubble gum.

Aluminum is not all it is cracked up to be, especially if you do any off road traveling. About 30 + years ago a snowmobile trailer manufacturer (s) came out with a Aluminum frame snowmobile trailers. All of us that snowmobile thought what a great idea I to save on weight and the aluminum wouldn't rust like steel.
I didn't buy on at the time as I had just built a new house and I am glad I didn't. These guys constantly were having to take their trailers in to get welds repaired as they kept breaking. Now we are driving down Hwys over frost heaves, pot holes and sometimes roughy logging roads to get to the snow ( spring and fall). However if a ne trailer from more than one manufacturer is going to have broken welds on a new trailer, what might you find in a camper that is 30 plus years old?
Not one of my buddies kept those trailers and have now gone to either sled decks which are alumuim but they see less rough handling as the truck suspension takes the brunt of the jarring or steel framed trailers.
Aluminum welds just don't stand up as good as steel welds in our case. Now because the truck suspension is taking the beating you might be ok.
Good luck
Soup.

jimh425 wrote:

SidecarFlip wrote:
MIG is speed, TIG is always quality.

Probably if you are welding it. It's certainly possible to do TIG wrong.

Moreso because of the process and weld parameters. MIG welding eliminates most operator input (so long as the parts to be joined) are prepped properly and that applies to any discipline, not just TIG.

Pre-prep is everything, especially with aluminum welding, though stainless and other exotic alloys require special prep.

Why experienced TIG welders command high wages, it their experience and expertise that command the wage paid.

I'm sure you have heard about N plants being taken offline for refuling. When they do that, they are also repairing / replacing physical components and every weld made in tha replacement process is a certified TIG weld and every weld is x rayed for quality because there is no margin for error.

Aluminum has some unique characteristics when it's joined, mainly oxidation and only a TIG machine has the capabil;ity of 'cleaning' the weld path / puddle while the weld is being formed. No MIG machine can do that. Consequently, a TIG weld on aluminum will be a stronger weld, everytime.

Problem is, of course, RV builders who are all geared for maximum profit and lowest input cost, don't want to pay for an experienced welder, especially an experienced TIG welder, when a spool gun attached MIG will do the job. It might be a marginal job but heck, it's stuck together and besides, it's under the sheathing so no one will see it...until it breaks that is.

Good example of low cost per weld is LCI components and their frame building for various RV manufacturers. All about getting it done quick with minimal labor cost. Consequently, you get missed welds, cold welds and poor join up because the mating parts are not prepped properly (as evidenced in many threads on various forums about how Lippert frames fail. Those frames are mild steel, all welded with a glue gun, nothing fancy there, but even a glue gun weld can be substandard when the welder isn't experienced at all, is pushed to be in a hurry, has no clue about joint prep and and really no proper training. You don't go from making burgers to a quality welder (in any discipline) overnight. They all take experience, training and time on the job.

IOW, you get what you pay for and in the end, the end user gets to deal with it.

SidecarFlip wrote:
MIG is speed, TIG is always quality.

Probably if you are welding it. It's certainly possible to do TIG wrong.

Would not an older camper with aluminum siding be much easier to work on?
Any of the new ones with Filon, you have to tear that stuff off to access the framing from the outside, with the aluminum sheets, just remove the section you want, put it back on when you are finished.

Some of those older campers are really nice inside also. Plus the price is right if you like to work on them.

jimh425 wrote:
I don't think any methods hold up better than others. They simply have different sets of problems to deal with. Whatever model you buy, make sure you have adequate defense against water and take care of it.

Four Wheel Campers has been around 30 years, but not under the same ownership. http://www.fourwh.com/popup-truck-camper-history/

Airstream isn't the original company either. Oh, and not all aircrafts are still in service either if you want to consider aircrafts as "it". Finally, MIG is common for aviation. Again, if you want to consider aviation as "it", you should look for a MIG welded model. ;)

Jim:

Four Wheel Campers was bought out but the original frame design (welded aluminum) was there with the original owners as well.

MIG may be common for production aviation in some areas but TIG surpasses any MIG welding. I know, I'm a certified TIG welder and I can do stuff with TIG that no MIG welder can do, or ever hope to do.

You want X-Ray quality welds in exotic metals, TIG is the only discipline available.

I own a few welders and I own a ESAB pulsed MIG that achieves a MIG weld that looks like a TIG weld but in reality it isn't. Appearances can be deceiving, especially when X-Rayed.

MIG is speed, TIG is always quality. Years ago, I started out using coathangers and an oxy-acetylene torch to weld with. TIG welding is similar but the OA is replaced with an electric arc sent through a tungsten electrode with an envelope of shielding gas and the filler material is fed into the weld puddle with your other hand. It's a high skill trade whereas MIG is low skill. Anyone can operate a MIG 'Glue Gun'. Not so with TIG. I probably shold say not anyone can run a MIG. The welds Kayteg pictured on his Fleetwood slide were cold welds did with a MIG but the heat duration was too short resulting in a cold (bird poop) weld with no joining quality.

I can take to ordinary aluminum pop cans and butt weld them together with a TIG machine, you could never do that with any MIG machine because you cannot control the amperage (low enough) to fuse the cans without destroying them. Finally most MIG machines that weld aluminum are spool gun machines. They do make push-pull torches now but spool guns are still the cost effective norm. Because of the wire diameter and amperage required, fine work is impossible.

I don't think any methods hold up better than others. They simply have different sets of problems to deal with. Whatever model you buy, make sure you have adequate defense against water and take care of it.

Four Wheel Campers has been around 30 years, but not under the same ownership. http://www.fourwh.com/popup-truck-camper-history/

Airstream isn't the original company either. Oh, and not all aircrafts are still in service either if you want to consider aircrafts as "it". Finally, MIG is common for aviation. Again, if you want to consider aviation as "it", you should look for a MIG welded model. ;)

SidecarFlip wrote:
Winder how long Four Wheel Campers has been in business. They have always had TIG welded (not bird poop welded) frames.

I answered my own question, went and looked. Been TIG welding aluminum frames since 1987

Winder how long Four Wheel Campers has been in business. They have always had TIG welded (not bird poop welded) frames.