Anybody towing with a late model gasser?

[daily_double]

I just had to shell out a little over 10K to fix the high pressure fuel pump on my 2012 Ford diesel. 37k miles on it and the dealer said "sorry" ford won't pay. After some discussion on this subject he said that about all you can do is buy your fuel at a truck stop (flying J ,Pilot etc) and hope you don't get any bad fuel. I'm about ready to try to find a gasser that will tow a 13k # fifth wheel up over the mountains . Is there any such thing made now?

[sacmarata]

WARNING - Towing 80 miles across I64 into Indiana with the 6.0 gasser tonight. Please be advised as traffic may be slowed substantially...LOL!

Couldn't help myself.

Seriously though, I'm looking at adding a manual lockup and speed controlled auto unlock on this ghastly thing. It should help on gently rolling hills.

Wish me luck you gasser nerds 🙂

[Bedlam]

Ford is not dropping their 6.8 V10. MY2016 will bring a version capable of CNG or LPG use across the board and the 6R140 transmission will be mated to it. This engine is only available in the class 4-7 cab chassis models. I'm not sure what is happening in the future with the 6.2 V8 in the class 2 and 3 trucks.

[Taco]

I recall reading somewhere that it is too hard to meet emissions standards with a big block engine.

Right now any of the big three hd truck gas engines can put more horsepower and torque to the ground at nearly any road speed than the old 8.1 and 6.8 v10.

I think if we see a huge power gas HD pickup engine it will be a turbo small block. However the ram 6.4 puts out 410 horse which is the most of any engine in an hd pickup for 2014.

[ib516]

BurbMan wrote:
I don't think he found that info, I think that's ib516's prediction on what GM is likely to do. He's probably right given how bulletproof the GM 6.0L has been. Power gains through technology will likely make the big block a dinosaur.

True, just my speculation.

However, it makes sense - at least to me. All the money spent on R&D adding DI to the 5.3L could be transferred over to the 6.0L. If the 5.3L gained hp & tq when they added DI, it only makes sense the 6.0L would too. The 6.0L shares a lot (design wise) with the 5.3L.

[BurbMan]

I don't think he found that info, I think that's ib516's prediction on what GM is likely to do. He's probably right given how bulletproof the GM 6.0L has been. Power gains through technology will likely make the big block a dinosaur.

[sky_free]

ib516 wrote:

BurbMan wrote:
GM discontinued the 8.1 because they hardly sold any...anybody towing got the DMax...consider the 8.1 lifespan from 01-07 saw some of the best diesels on the market including Cummins and the Duramax.

Now that Ram has the 6.4, I wouldn't be surprised to see GM bring back another big block...the time is right IMO considering all the issues that diesels face in terms of emissions complexity.

I don't know that keeping the 8.1 in the market would have helped GM, while it was head and shoulders above the old 454, it's old school compared to what Chrysler has done with their 6.4.

I see GM adding the direct injection etc. to the 6.0L for 2015 or 2016 that they did to the 5.3L from 2013 to the 2014 models. That should give a nice bump in power and mpg and make it competitive again.

I'm curious where you found that information? I looked around but couldn't find anything. It's been rumored since 2010 or so, but the official Chevy site which lists the stats for the 2015 has no direct injection. When I was planning my truck purchase I was anxiously awaiting an announcement from GM on DI for the 2015 but it never came, so I went with a used Ford 6.2.

Truck Trend is saying that the 2017 Ford 6.2 will be direct injection with a 10-speed (!) transmission. Wow.

[ib516]

BurbMan wrote:
GM discontinued the 8.1 because they hardly sold any...anybody towing got the DMax...consider the 8.1 lifespan from 01-07 saw some of the best diesels on the market including Cummins and the Duramax.

Now that Ram has the 6.4, I wouldn't be surprised to see GM bring back another big block...the time is right IMO considering all the issues that diesels face in terms of emissions complexity.

I don't know that keeping the 8.1 in the market would have helped GM, while it was head and shoulders above the old 454, it's old school compared to what Chrysler has done with their 6.4.

I see GM adding the direct injection etc. to the 6.0L for 2015 or 2016 that they did to the 5.3L from 2013 to the 2014 models. That should give a nice bump in power and mpg and make it competitive again.

[mitw44]

daily double wrote:
I'm sure your service manager knows a lot more about trucks than I do, but I personally would not try to tow my fiver with a 5.4. I had one, and it was fine for smaller jobs but not the fiver! that was an '05, I am now driving my last Ford.

I work just down the road from you, so I can imagine you can guess which employer I am referring to (would like to leave their name out). Most all of the bigger trucks (F550 and up) with the work bodies have the V10's. If I understand it right, the V10 is still available in the heavier trucks. There are also a lot of crew trucks (F250 and F350). A lot of them have the V10, but some have the 5.4. The newer F250's and F350's are being ordered with the 6.2. We have one that pulls all our big boats for lake management, and it pulls fine.

If the truck is still running well, we don't trade on mileage or age, so there are still a lot of the older ones in the fleet.

The V10 is definitely his preferred powerplant. I think there are two F250's out of maybe 100 or better that have a diesel. One is assigned to the heavy equipment foreman. The only reason he has a diesel is that the heavy earth moving equipment he oversees use diesel, and there is a diesel tank at his jobs, saving a trip into town for fuel for his truck.

When I was shopping for my F250, I had a long talk with the fleet manager and some of his mechanics. They all said the same thing - the power is great, but if it ever needs work, it could get VERY expensive, and the gas engines are so reliable. Although I really thought hard about a diesel, in the end, I took their advice, and am happy with my choice.

I still like diesels, dont get me wrong. In fact, I may be a diesel owner yet, as I am thinking about buying a 1992 Ford 4WD tractor with a 3 cylinder diesel engine. I don't think I will have to worry about smog controls on that one!

[BurbMan]

GM discontinued the 8.1 because they hardly sold any...anybody towing got the DMax...consider the 8.1 lifespan from 01-07 saw some of the best diesels on the market including Cummins and the Duramax.

Now that Ram has the 6.4, I wouldn't be surprised to see GM bring back another big block...the time is right IMO considering all the issues that diesels face in terms of emissions complexity.

I don't know that keeping the 8.1 in the market would have helped GM, while it was head and shoulders above the old 454, it's old school compared to what Chrysler has done with their 6.4.

[kw_00]

The argument that is commonly stated is that Diesel engines last longer then gas to due lower rpm, heavier built, ect.. This is probably true in most cases, but not always by much in miles. The problem with most trucks out there is the truck falls apart around the engine... So we all may have good engines, but other expensive issues rear their ugly heads such as tranny, rear diff, dashboard issues, electric gremlins, and other expensive issues. So most trade in prior seeing the issues stated above. So inconsideration of that, you need to ask yourself do I really need that expensive of an engine upgrade? Because that new truck sitting in your driveway may change in a few short years, Due to the cost associated with a newer diesel such as fuel, and emission issues ect.. Not knocking those who have them. I have been there as well with the DMax. Love the power hate the repair and overall cost. My gm 6.0 is lower in cost then the DMax that we had. That's my experience may not be yours. Gas power plants in trucks are becoming better with time, and I believe that dodge just raised the bar on their hemi, so others will soon need to do the same. So one must take in consideration their needs, and ability to pay to play.

[sacmarata]

Jarlaxle wrote:

sacmarata wrote:
Comparing a gas truck to diesel is apples to orangutans.
Sure theres those that say "my gasser pulls my 8,000lb trailer just fine."
In my experience those are the ones afraid to own a diesel because of the undo stigma put on diesels from common problems of the old technogy Fords and Chevys.
Almost any gas truck will pull 8,000 lbs. Heck I used to pull an old 23' trihull beast of a boat with my Nissan 4 cylinder. Yes...it pulled it just fine...until I learned what just fine really meant that is. I upgraded to a 4.0 Ranger. WHOA boy. I could almost keep up with fraffic on the flats. This was livin!
Well, a few years later I got the 12 valve and I immediatelyI felt stupid telling everyone my Ranger was the bees knees all those years. It wasn't! It pulled the thing, sure! But did it keep up with traffic? No! Did I go through a clutch prematurely yes!
I know comparing a Ranger to a modern v8 gasser isnt the same but the illustration wasnt to compare the two but to show how one can talk themselves into believing something is "just fine" when it's not.

How many of you accept adequate with your camping gear or get by on just good enough. Thats what yer doin with a gasser pulling over 8,000lbs. It will NOT pull as good as a diesel. It WILL NOT last as long. It will have premature wear. It WONT be worth as much with 150K miles.

My 1994 Cummins 12 valve has 324k carefree miles and will out pull any gasser off the assembly line in 3/4 or 1 ton.

If anyone thinks 45mph on the interstate is safe they are jaded.

A 30-valve Ford V10 will suck the doors off your truck on any long grade! 362HP beats 215HP...this is basic physics!

Note: a local towing company has a gas repo truck...and that truck is quicker up hills than the 7.3 PSD trucks! Why? Because it has more horsepower!

The gasser did wear out, though...it needed a motor a while back. It only had 553,000 miles!

Who told you I only had 215hp??? I've stated repeatedly that my 12valve like most all others has almost completely free mods and is pushing over 300hp. I estimate mine around 360hp but not gonna spend the money on a dyno just to find out I was +/- 40hp.

A slightly modified Cummins 12V will run lower RPM than the V10, put out more useable torque in range and last longer.

I have a problem with running higher RPMs than necessary because higher RPM's mean (in some cases) increased temps and always mean increased wear. It's simple physics. If I run a piece of sand paper over a board 400 times a minute it will have less wear than if I ran the same piece 600 times a minute. To my knowledge gas pistons, cylinders, cranks, cams, bearings, valves, etc don't have spectacular advances over the same in diesel.

[daily_double]

I'm sure your service manager knows a lot more about trucks than I do, but I personally would not try to tow my fiver with a 5.4. I had one, and it was fine for smaller jobs but not the fiver! that was an '05, I am now driving my last Ford.

[rhagfo]

mitw44 wrote:
I know I have mentioned this before, but here goes again. I work for a major power generation company with a transmission/distribution department. We have hundreds of trucks, mostly Fords, from F250 on up to F750. A lot of them have work bodies on them, bucket lifts, etc. Many of them pull large trailers with all manner of heavy off-road equipment. If anyone puts a truck to work, it's our guys.

The fleet manager has been there for 25 years, and knows truck maintenance. Even though it's not his personal money, and has deep pockets to pay for repairs if he needs it, he does not order many diesel trucks. Almost all are gas, primarily the 6.8L V10, but also plenty of 5.4L V8's.

Between the weight of the truck work bodies, and the trailers full of heavy equipment, etc. these trucks get a real work out. And the gas engines do just fine. Our fleet manager just simply does not want to deal with the maintenance headaches and potential expense should something go out on one of them.

And our service department and mechanic staff would put most large dealerships to shame. So it's not for lack of time, money or talent. The gas engine is just a better bet for our setup.

Nothing personal against diesel, but the newer engines and fuel systems, along with the environmental smog controls have made diesel less competitive vs gas.

With a fleet of Fords very smart move! :B

Sorry, the Devil (AKA Ex Ford loyalest) made me do that, getting Fire Suite on now!!!:E

[mitw44]

I know I have mentioned this before, but here goes again. I work for a major power generation company with a transmission/distribution department. We have hundreds of trucks, mostly Fords, from F250 on up to F750. A lot of them have work bodies on them, bucket lifts, etc. Many of them pull large trailers with all manner of heavy off-road equipment. If anyone puts a truck to work, it's our guys.

The fleet manager has been there for 25 years, and knows truck maintenance. Even though it's not his personal money, and has deep pockets to pay for repairs if he needs it, he does not order many diesel trucks. Almost all are gas, primarily the 6.8L V10, but also plenty of 5.4L V8's.

Between the weight of the truck work bodies, and the trailers full of heavy equipment, etc. these trucks get a real work out. And the gas engines do just fine. Our fleet manager just simply does not want to deal with the maintenance headaches and potential expense should something go out on one of them.

And our service department and mechanic staff would put most large dealerships to shame. So it's not for lack of time, money or talent. The gas engine is just a better bet for our setup.

Nothing personal against diesel, but the newer engines and fuel systems, along with the environmental smog controls have made diesel less competitive vs gas.