Anyone having F150 brake issues (particularly 2012)-UPDATED

[Crowe]

Hi kids. Haven't been in this area of the forum for a while. We have a 2012 F150 w/Ecoboost. The brakes never really felt quite right and we had them checked right after we bought it and were told everything was fine. Had routine service done about two weeks ago (truck otherwise has not need any maintenance or repairs) and shortly thereafter the brakes seemed worse. If the truck hasn't been driven for 24 hours or more when first starting out the brake pedal would only go halfway down and brakes would not engage completely. If you idled for a minute or two and pumped the brakes once or twice was no issue. After that there would be noticeable issue. Dropped it off at the dealer, got a call said that there was nothing wrong. Hubby hit the roof and told them to look again, saying we found evidence of similar issues when doing a net search (which we did). He also told them that if anyone got hurt because of brake failure he'd own the dealership. They "looked again" and said that the brake vacuum pump was bad and truck was unsafe to drive (ya think?). Has anyone else heard of or experienced this issue? Just posting out of curiosity and to give a head's up to anyone who might have the same issue.

[Sport45]

I'm pretty sure our '64 Galaxie wagon had an electric wiper motor. At least I remember not having to start the engine (352 4bbl) to run the wipers at the drive in.

Typing that makes me feel even older... At least the '64 wasn't new at the time. 🙂

[WDP]

Sport45 wrote:

coolbreeze01 wrote:
Do the wipers quit when you accelerate?

Now that's going back a ways. I've read about wipers quitting on long uphill pulls due to loss of vacuum, but all my vehicles have had electric wipers. What year model did you have with vacuum powered wipers?

64 Galaxie, everything after has electric wipers.

WDP

[coolbreeze01]

Sport45 wrote:

What year model did you have with vacuum powered wipers?

It was a 1960 F-100 4x4.

[Mike_Up]

Guess I was wrong, there are a lot of complaints about the Vacuum pump failing. Just found a thread today.

See here.

[Sport45]

coolbreeze01 wrote:
Do the wipers quit when you accelerate?

Now that's going back a ways. I've read about wipers quitting on long uphill pulls due to loss of vacuum, but all my vehicles have had electric wipers. What year model did you have with vacuum powered wipers?

[Mike_Up]

wwest wrote:

Crowe wrote:
Crowe...go to the Ford Truck Enthusiast site, I'm certain the advice there will be more than what you can get here

Wasn't looking for advice per se but just wondering if anyone had experienced any issues.

www.f150forum.com is the biggest F150 site on the web. NEVER have I seen any common brake issues on there. If there was, believe me, it would be all over just like all the problems with the Ecoboost motor (condensation, plug gaps, carbon build up, turbo failures from modifications, etc.) .

Sounds like the brakes were previously worked on and the air never got bled out of the lines completely.

No issue with the Ecoboost at all. I believe the early ones did have problems but later production resolved most of them. Brakes SHOULDN'T have been worked on-the truck's only been in for routine maintenance. My thought was also air in the lines but dealer says it's just a bad vacuum pump. When you manufacture enough of something sooner or later one will fail. We're just going to pass it off as "one of those things" at least for now.

The news is that Ford's latest CAC condensation, "limp mode" fix (4th or 5th?), only for 2014 models, is not working in all situations.

Apparently the CAC design flaw exists in EVERY F-150 EcoBUST ever built, only happens with conducive climatic conditions coupled with driving style unique to those conditions.

L o n g drive consistently only in cruise mode, NEVER on boost, and low Rh.

Or short "cruise only" drive with high, ~80+, Rh.

Good luck.

Yep, at the F150forum, there are still condensation reports with 2013/2014s as well. Ford has never had a fix just a mask.

[Mike_Up]

wwest wrote:

goducks10 wrote:

TrevorL wrote:
no brake problems with my 2011 F-150.... i do have the transmission thud when i stop and take off... dealer says its not an issue but it drives me nuts..not loud but you can feel it...i need to buy a tuner to tweak the trans settings..

Oh the infamous 'bump'. Had that on my 2010 F150. Drove me nuts. Took it in to the dealer and they flashed the tyranny. Said drive it for a week or so. NO change. Took it in a second time. This time one of the tech guys rode with me. He said don't worry about it you have a warranty. In other words they don't have a fix and to just drive it till it breaks then they'll know what to fix.

There are 2 (relatively) new aspects to automatic transmission designs.

1.) FULL fuel cutoff during coastdown periods in order to improve FE. Fuel flow is cut off completely and the tranny is sequentially downshifted to keep the engine turning over above stall speed. Once roadspeed is low enough that this cannot be sustained 2 things happen simultaneously, fuel flow is restored and the tranny is upshifted.

"Bumped from behind, or "slingshot" effect" results, you feel as if the brakes were just slightly released....They were...engine compression braking was suddenly, without any action on your part, lowered.

NOW...the tranny is downshifted into first ONLY after coming to a FULL STOP...BUMP!

2. WEAK torque converter... Since the lock-up clutch is always engaged whenever the A/F oxygen sensor is in control, cruise mode, EXCEPT for clutch functionality at low speeds or stopped, the new torque converters are less "robust".

So you now need/have "hill-hold" in order to stay motionless when stopped on an incline. Some designs only engage this mode if the driver applies "extra" brake pressure once stopped, others use the ABS sensors to detect "roll".

In any case "hill-hold" will automatically apply the brakes and then DBW will be used to delay the onset of engine torque when the driver says "go", in order to have the few milliseconds to release those brakes.

Acceleration "JERK"...

Wow, you have the trans down pretty good. The 2011 and up trans are a lot better with a different one way clutch and with the skip of 2nd while down shifting, 6,5,4,3,1 . My previous 2010 trans was a mess and 'one' of the reasons I got rid of it. Failed valves resulting in very bad jerks, not bumps. Ford could never get it fixed right and why I'm sure they redesigned it for 2011. I wouldn't buy a 2009 or 2010 with that previous transmission and it's known issues. A coworker got rid of his 2010 because of transmission issues as well.

[Fordlover]

Crowe wrote:
Hubby just picked up the truck. It appears to him the brakes were bad from the get-go and finally got to the point where it was noticeable enough to cause us to bring the truck in. All fixed and brakes are good. Pump was probably bad from the factory and just took it's sweet time to fail.

Glad to hear you are all fixed up.

[Crowe]

Hubby just picked up the truck. It appears to him the brakes were bad from the get-go and finally got to the point where it was noticeable enough to cause us to bring the truck in. All fixed and brakes are good. Pump was probably bad from the factory and just took it's sweet time to fail.

[wwest]

jus2shy wrote:
Actually, this is a problem with turbocharged gas motors. When I owned a Saturn Sky Redline, there was a TSB for the 2008 car which removed the electric vacuum pump from the system (GM figured that it was unnecessary). There were situations where shortly after first start-up, there may not be enough vacuum. So when you're backing out and hitting the brakes, you find yourself having to REALLY push down since you have no power assist. They ended up adding the part back in 2009 and adding it back to 2008 cars that customers experienced the issue in. Typically the brake system is boosted by engine vacuum. With a turbocharged motor, you have times where the manifold goes positive pressure or doesn't produce enough vacuum because of mild boosting from the turbo. So many turbo cars get an assist from an electric or mechanical vacuum pump. Seems like the assisting vacuum pump failed on your ride and you were relying purely on the engine's vacuum which isn't consistent, so it's in those short inconsistencies where the assisting vacuum pump helps shore-up vacuum assist (along with a vacuum reservoir I believe). I'm surprised I haven't heard of this so much.

The EPA may have played a role in this...

Historically vacuum assisted braking systems included a vacuum storage reservoir and a check valve so the vacuum could not "leak" back into the manifold during periods of WOT throttle operation.

Applying the brakes would result in the need to "refill" the reservoir. That, in turn, results in more oxygen flow into the intake manifold, UNMEASURED, MAF/IAT "bypass", intake OXYGEN.

So I could see the EPA requiring a flow rate restriction into the vacuum reservoir, resulting in less than expected brake boost assist at times.

Or in the alternative....a vacuum pump.

[wwest]

Crowe wrote:
Crowe...go to the Ford Truck Enthusiast site, I'm certain the advice there will be more than what you can get here

Wasn't looking for advice per se but just wondering if anyone had experienced any issues.

www.f150forum.com is the biggest F150 site on the web. NEVER have I seen any common brake issues on there. If there was, believe me, it would be all over just like all the problems with the Ecoboost motor (condensation, plug gaps, carbon build up, turbo failures from modifications, etc.) .

Sounds like the brakes were previously worked on and the air never got bled out of the lines completely.

No issue with the Ecoboost at all. I believe the early ones did have problems but later production resolved most of them. Brakes SHOULDN'T have been worked on-the truck's only been in for routine maintenance. My thought was also air in the lines but dealer says it's just a bad vacuum pump. When you manufacture enough of something sooner or later one will fail. We're just going to pass it off as "one of those things" at least for now.

The news is that Ford's latest CAC condensation, "limp mode" fix (4th or 5th?), only for 2014 models, is not working in all situations.

Apparently the CAC design flaw exists in EVERY F-150 EcoBUST ever built, only happens with conducive climatic conditions coupled with driving style unique to those conditions.

L o n g drive consistently only in cruise mode, NEVER on boost, and low Rh.

Or short "cruise only" drive with high, ~80+, Rh.

Good luck.

[wwest]

goducks10 wrote:

TrevorL wrote:
no brake problems with my 2011 F-150.... i do have the transmission thud when i stop and take off... dealer says its not an issue but it drives me nuts..not loud but you can feel it...i need to buy a tuner to tweak the trans settings..

Oh the infamous 'bump'. Had that on my 2010 F150. Drove me nuts. Took it in to the dealer and they flashed the tyranny. Said drive it for a week or so. NO change. Took it in a second time. This time one of the tech guys rode with me. He said don't worry about it you have a warranty. In other words they don't have a fix and to just drive it till it breaks then they'll know what to fix.

There are 2 (relatively) new aspects to automatic transmission designs.

1.) FULL fuel cutoff during coastdown periods in order to improve FE. Fuel flow is cut off completely and the tranny is sequentially downshifted to keep the engine turning over above stall speed. Once roadspeed is low enough that this cannot be sustained 2 things happen simultaneously, fuel flow is restored and the tranny is upshifted.

"Bumped from behind, or "slingshot" effect" results, you feel as if the brakes were just slightly released....They were...engine compression braking was suddenly, without any action on your part, lowered.

NOW...the tranny is downshifted into first ONLY after coming to a FULL STOP...BUMP!

2. WEAK torque converter... Since the lock-up clutch is always engaged whenever the A/F oxygen sensor is in control, cruise mode, EXCEPT for clutch functionality at low speeds or stopped, the new torque converters are less "robust".

So you now need/have "hill-hold" in order to stay motionless when stopped on an incline. Some designs only engage this mode if the driver applies "extra" brake pressure once stopped, others use the ABS sensors to detect "roll".

In any case "hill-hold" will automatically apply the brakes and then DBW will be used to delay the onset of engine torque when the driver says "go", in order to have the few milliseconds to release those brakes.

Acceleration "JERK"...

[goducks10]

TrevorL wrote:
no brake problems with my 2011 F-150.... i do have the transmission thud when i stop and take off... dealer says its not an issue but it drives me nuts..not loud but you can feel it...i need to buy a tuner to tweak the trans settings..

Oh the infamous 'bump'. Had that on my 2010 F150. Drove me nuts. Took it in to the dealer and they flashed the tranny. Said drive it for a week or so. NO change. Took it in a second time. This time one of the tech guys rode with me. He said don't worry about it you have a warranty. In other words they don't have a fix and to just drive it till it breaks then they'll know what to fix.

[TrevorL]

no brake problems with my 2011 F-150.... i do have the transmission thud when i stop and take off... dealer says its not an issue but it drives me nuts..not loud but you can feel it...i need to buy a tuner to tweak the trans settings..