Best Tow Vehicles for Hybrids

[MichiganCamperM]

We would like to purchase a sub-$10,000 tow vehicle for a hybrid trailer (not yet purchased) that can double as a safe "sharing car" for two teen drivers in our family. We camp roughly six times per year. Ideas? We are considering the Jayco X17Z (GVWR 3500) and the Jayco X19H (GVWR 4950).
Would it be realistic to use our 2007 Toyota Sienna (equipped with tow package) to tow the Jayco X17Z?

[tcp]

We towed our hybrid trailer, an 18 ft bantam flyer, for many years and many kms through the Rockies with our 2005 Sienna. Added airbags for stability and to remove sag. The sienna, as per the owners manual, had a 350lb tongue weight limit without a WDH and 525lbs with a WDH. I always used a WDH.
The cargo capacity for the Sienna was also 1684lbs (for all passengers, cargo and tongue). We were within all specifications.

[atreis]

The Sienna has really good payload capacity, and the aftermarket (Toyota manual actually recommends using an aftermarket receiver - heh) receivers are plenty strong for the rated capacity. The one I installed is rated for 5000 lbs (standard Reese aftermarket receiver for the my year Sienna - installed in 2009 and used with this trailer and the one prior).

After subtracting off full hitch weight, there's still 600-800 lbs (depending on trim line) for cargo in the Sienna - the same is true for the GCWR (for the Sienna, GCWR is simply GVWR + 3000 lbs - the rest is assumed to be in the GVWR as hitch weight). Assuming you only load people into the Sienna and not gear, the X17Z would be fine. The X19H is too heavy. (Jaycos are heavier than some other brands - if you look around you can find lighter options.)

Assuming you're not in a hurry and not overly concerned about slowing on long steep hills in mountains, with a proper hitch I think you'll also find it a very pleasant and comfortable towing experience. I certainly have - for 60K miles (towing) at this point (I'm over 100K miles on the Sienna - no mechanical problems).

Towing: 60mph. (Most trailer tires are only rated for 65 anyway.)

Hitch: Spend a little money and get an Equa-li-zer, Blue Ox Sway pro, Reese Dual Cam, Hensley, ProPride, or other good quality highly effective WD/sway control hitch and make sure it's installed and setup properly.

Weights: Get a tongue scale, and make sure your tongue is heavy enough (12-15% of total trailer weight), and not over the hitch rating with WD. Also, stop at a scale on some trip and find out what your true total weights are, and adjust accordingly (next trip).

Suspension: I installed Timbrens in the rear springs. Helps a lot for porpoising.

Most of the people here who say "don't tow with a minivan" haven't tried and just assume they're not good at it. The Sienna really is pretty good at it if you stay within its limits and set it up properly.

[rexlion]

APT wrote:
rexlion, you did this travelling with 6 people on-board? Air bags on a Sienna will make it just as capable as a Highlander with a lot more space inside and keep the nimble handling. Both will be quite overloaded with 450 pounds of TW and 6 people. As with so many things in life, RV type involves lots of compromises.

Who said anything about 6 people? The OP mentioned 2 teenagers; that would suggest 4 people. 2 teens, probably an extra 250 lbs or so in row two... no big deal. 2016 HL Ltd has curb weight of 4354, GVWR 5840; looks like plenty of capacity.

Some days when my cargo trailer was loaded to about 425 lbs hitch weight, I had another 75 lbs of merchandise in the rear hatch of the HL. No passengers on those days, however. The vehicle still has its original suspension; the mechanics check it for me when I ask and they tell me the struts and everything are still fine. It amazes me, after the beating I've given this vehicle.

I agree that air bags on the Sienna would be a helpful option in the OP's towing situation, but there's still the issue of the receiver's ability to stay bolted to the vehicle under a load that exceeds its rated capacity. For that matter, the receiver itself could break a weld. If sticking to the Sienna, best that the OP spend the money with the experts at Can-Am who will set it up right... and air bags may or may not be a part of their recommendation, I don't know.

[APT]

rexlion, you did this travelling with 6 people on-board? Air bags on a Sienna will make it just as capable as a Highlander with a lot more space inside and keep the nimble handling. Both will be quite overloaded with 450 pounds of TW and 6 people. As with so many things in life, RV type involves lots of compromises.

[rexlion]

I should also mention the Dodge Durango and Jeep Grand Cherokee, which also have suitable tow ratings (over 6K lbs with V6, over 7K lbs with V8 or diesel) and nimble handling. And the Ford Explorer has a 5K lb rating, plus you can get the optional turbo.

I beg to differ with APT about the towing capability of a Highlander. I have towed 16' and 17' trailers, both cargo and travel trailers, for 140,000 of my HL's 186,000 miles. Only in the Rocky Mountains did I wish for more power. Never a hint of instability, either. Yes, the Sienna might have the same 3.5L engine as the HL, but the HL suspension, receiver, and receiver attachment points are all more beefy than the Sienna's. Where 350 lbs would have the Sienna's back end dragging, 450 lbs on the HL hitch is well tolerated.

All of the above are unibody vehicles with relatively carlike handling and will be relatively forgiving of sudden swerves and unplanned avoidance maneuvers performed by inexperienced drivers. I did not suggest any of the largest SUVs such as Expedition, Suburban, Sequoyah because they are built on truck frames and do not handle as nimbly. While not at all prone to flipping over, they are easier to flip than the ones previously named.

But really there are plenty of options out there.

[APT]

Ram 1500 regular cab with Pentastar is not $10k and at 2500rpm only makes 225ft-lb of torque. A used 5yr old HD truck can be $10k and makes 50% more torque at the same engine speed. Could the Pentastar (or any NA V6 make more power at say 4000rpm? Sure, and it will spend a lot more time at that speed than a vehicle that makes more power where most people want to drive.

A good family hauler that can tow is not a Highlander or Traverse. Those are minivans with rear hinged doors and less cargo space than you have. You'll likely have the same towing experience with those as any late model minivan.

[MichiganCamperM]

Thanks for your responses, all. I see two possible options: Purchase a nicer pop-up instead of a hybrid, or, sell our Sienna and purchase a large SUV that is a good family-hauler and can tow, such as a Highlander or Traverse, Any vehicle recommendations welcome!

[ChooChooMan74]

APT wrote:
Towing anything "high walled" at 60mph comfortably takes a lot more power than a naturally aspirated V6 engine.

I wouldn't put a Pentastar in that category. I have heard good things about that motor. I would assume that there is a couple, and they have 2 vehicle. If one could use a Ram 1500 short bed standard cab with a pentastar as a daily driver, more than enough to tow any of those trailers listed above.

[APT]

Towing anything "high walled" at 60mph comfortably takes a lot more power than a naturally aspirated V6 engine. Step up to something Forced induction, or V8 and power should be good. That likely means full sized half ton SUV. Then there is a matter of payload.

If you plan to camp about 200 miles from home, then Id recommend getting a cheap regular cab 3/4 ton gas truck within your budget and driving two vehicles. Then you can tow nearly any high wall travel trailer you want under 7k pounds dry. Soon those teenagers won't be camping with you anyway, or driving themselves.

[rexlion]

Jayco X17Z Weights
Unloaded Vehicle Weight (lbs) 3085
Dry Hitch Weight (lbs) 400
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (lbs) 3500
Cargo Carrying Capacity (lbs) 415
Measurements
Exterior Length 18' 7"
Exterior Width 96"
Exterior Height with AC 121"
Tank Capacities
Fresh Water Capacity (gals) 22.5
Fresh Water Capacity (gals) includes water heater 28.5
Gray Waste Water Capacity (gals) 30.5
Black Waste Water Capacity (gals) 22.5

Ok, as noted by ChooChoo, your cargo capacity is only 415 lbs. Look at the water tank capacities. Water is about 8.3 lbs per gallon. Tanks can hold 670 lbs of water... talk about a mismatch! Ok, so you could run with tanks close to empty. But by the time you add LP, battery, a scant few gallons of water and some camping gear, you will be over the limit. Trust us.

Next, look at the dry hitch weight, 400 lbs. That's before you put the LP tanks or battery onto the front. Real world hitch weight when you're ready to camp will be 450-550 lbs. Believe it. IF you spend a couple grand at Can-Am, they could install a custom hitch receiver with stronger attachment points and perhaps modify your minivan with better suspension and low profile tires, perhaps a stabilizer bar or something as well. Without all of that, the proposed rig would be a disaster waiting to happen.

The X19H has only 300 lb dry hitch, but again you will be over 350 for sure when you pull out of the driveway.

This HTT could be towed by a Chevy Traverse or '08+ Toyota Highlander, each of which have roughly 5000 lb tow / 500 lb hitch ratings. They would have low center of gravity and car-like handling & maneuverability, which would be good for inexperienced drivers. I have towed with my HL for over 140,000 miles and it's done the job. If you buy a used one, you are unlikely to find one with the factory tow package so plan on adding an auxiliary tranny cooler. Also I should mention that I never towed trailers over 7' wide or 100" high, and these Jaycos are 8' wide x 121" high; the extra frontal area is substantial and you should figure on driving 55 mph to a MAX of 60 mph on the highway. Frontal area is a big, big factor... more so than adding a few hundred pounds of weight or a couple extra feet of length.

[rwbradley]

I know I will get flamed by this but in reality there are lots of people doing what you are doing safely... insert flame war here...
Being from Michigan, I would consider a 2 hour drive across the border (from either Detroit or Port Huron. CanAm RV in London Ontario has been specializing in building custom hitches and road tests many of their setups at an old Airstrip nearby under extreme conditions. When was the last time your RV dealer took a towing setup to a proving ground and actually tried to roll it? They have done many many setups similar to what you are asking. I would talk to the owner Andy and get another perspective than the "you must be a slave to the weight calculations" answers you will get on a forum. Building a TV/Trailer package is far more complex than a little bit of grade 3 math on weight limits... insert another flame war here...
I am not saying you can do it with this particular setup, just that you should keep an open mind and look at all the factors before you decide.

[ChooChooMan74]

1st, do you realize that the X17Z has about 400 pounds of cargo capacity? 2nd, what is the frontal area limitation on the Sienna? A hybrid will have over 60 square feet for frontal area.

When I got back into camping, I towed with a Jeep Liberty Diesel for a few years before finally getting a new Ram. The Jeep did it's job, although we were slightly over GVW with family on board.

I would check out the sienna forums. I believe most tow popups with theirs. If you want to tow a full height travel trailer, I would look for something a bit more robust.

[mbopp]

DB has an '04 Sienna w/ 200K miles on it. He's towed his Fun Finder and family of 4 up and down the east coast.

I'm not saying I agree with this, but he's had success with this setup.

[DutchmenSport]

Well, to be completely honest? If you are looking at letting your teen-age kids dive the vehicle, you can expect 2 insurance claims per kid before they move out of your home permanently as adults!

My son was a good driver, but pulling out of our own drive way, a speeder (in a school zone, as the end of our driveway was inside a school zone), T-boned him pull out. The guy came up on him so fast, he didn't even see him coming!

Second event was in a parking lot. The kid just turned the engine on at the parking spot when someone slammed into the back end of the car when they were going in reverse! The damage to our car was pretty bad for a parking lot incident.

What I'm saying is, you can just expect something to happen. My suggestion.... really...!!!! If you want to keep your tow vehicle for pulling your camper, get the kids a different car!