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Big 3 Petition EPA for CAFE Relief

thomasmnile
Explorer
Explorer
Interesting Reading.........

Not necessarily tow vehicles, but interesting nonetheless.
42 REPLIES 42

wilber1
Explorer
Explorer
campigloo wrote:
Diesel, if I'm so out of it, why have none of the predictions come to pass? We've been told we would be under a block of ice in twenty years and told multiple times the planet would be uninhabitable in just a few years because of excessive heat. When it doesn't happen the government funded "scientists" simply announce a later date. How do you explain a growing ice pack in the Antarctic?
Maybe you're the one that needs to do some fact checking.


Here ya go.

NASA
"Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice" WSC

2011 RAM 3500 SRW
2015 Grand Design Reflection 303RLS

campigloo
Explorer
Explorer
Diesel, if I'm so out of it, why have none of the predictions come to pass? We've been told we would be under a block of ice in twenty years and told multiple times the planet would be uninhabitable in just a few years because of excessive heat. When it doesn't happen the government funded "scientists" simply announce a later date. How do you explain a growing ice pack in the Antarctic?
Maybe you're the one that needs to do some fact checking.

campigloo
Explorer
Explorer
Diesel, if I'm so out of it, why have none of the predictions come to pass? We've been told we would be under a block of ice in twenty years and told multiple times the planet would be uninhabitable in just a few years because of excessive heat. When it doesn't happen the government funded "scientists" simply announce a later date. How do you explain a growing ice pack in the Antarctic?
Maybe you're the one that needs to do some fact checking.
Go refill your koolaid jug.

John___Angela
Explorer
Explorer
wilber1 wrote:
I'm one of those older folks.

I think government has to provide some kind of direction for the future because the market won't. We see it all the time. When fuel prices go down, sales of gas guzzlers go up and fuel efficient vehicles go down. When fuel prices go up, the opposite happens and in both cases manufacturers supply what the customer is buying.

Our air and water is cleaner than 50 years ago in spite of a 50% increase in population Whether you like how they have done it or not, the EPA has to get a lot of the credit for that.


Wish the board had a thumbs up.

Its an age old argument that only changes as one generation replaces another. The older generation have been conditioned to believe that putting the environment somehow costs more money and creates poverty. not their fault, its just the thinking of the era. It'll change over time.

Oh and far as China being the polluters, nope, we are the pigs of the planet. They may produce more pollution over all (they have four times the population) but they put out less than half per capita than what we do. It all starts at home.
2003 Revolution 40C Class A. Electric smart car as a Toad on a smart car trailer
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take but rather by the moments that take our breath away.

DieselBurps
Explorer
Explorer
Why does the name of this scientific problem keep changing? It started out as global cooling. Next it was global warming then man made global warming and now it's climate change. It seems to me that these computer models keep changing to meet the demands of the desired result.

Desired result? It seems to me you are easily fooled by conspiracy theories. If you can't keep up with current research and terminology there is only one person to blame for that.

thomasmnile
Explorer
Explorer
blofgren wrote:

LOL thanks for the laugh! :B

We are enjoying the Presidential debates here in Canada.



You're welcome, I wish I could find some amusement in our national political discourse, but I can't. :B

Nothing at all wrong with cleaning the air, water, etc., but as Wilber said, within reason. EV's have a place, but they're not for everyone. Why the major Class 8 truck manufacturers are tinkering with hybrid vehicles, along the lines of the diesel electric locomotive. Got no problem with wind and solar, but I don't see them as a practical replacement for mass produced fossil fuel power generation, though wind, solar, and fossil fuel are certainly preferable to the staggering cost of nuclear power, and I'm not talking about the cost to the environment or people in the event of a reactor accident. Duke Energy is collecting something like 8 bucks or more a month from every one of its Florida customers to decommission a nuclear plant at Crystal River, Fl. The reactor room floor is separating from the reactor building walls. Caught before it became a problem, but not before almost a billion bucks was spent trying to fix it and concluding they can't........

wilber1
Explorer
Explorer
I think we are getting the result whether we desire it or not.
"Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice" WSC

2011 RAM 3500 SRW
2015 Grand Design Reflection 303RLS

campigloo
Explorer
Explorer
I'm confused. I thought scientific theory was proven by being able to achieve
the same result through repeated testing and experimenting. I was never taught that scientific truth is an opinion; i.e. consensus. Why does the name of this scientific problem keep changing? It started out as global cooling. Next it was global warming then man made global warming and now it's climate change. It seems to me that these computer models keep changing to meet the demands of the desired result.

blofgren
Explorer
Explorer
thomasmnile wrote:
wilber1 wrote:

CAFE standards have to be an honest, realistic collaboration between government and industry taking into account what is possible with existing technology. Vehicles that are more fuel efficient are a good thing.


Very well said. Um, you wouldn't be available to run for President of the United States, would you? :B We're a quart low on reasonable and common sense down here............


LOL thanks for the laugh! :B

We are enjoying the Presidential debates here in Canada.

I do agree that the EPA does deserve some credit. I was amazed at the difference in exhaust smell, smoke, and soot from my 2003 F-350 6.0L to my 2013 6.7L Cummins. There is absolutely none with the Cummins, and I'm still trying to get the soot off the side of my beer fridge from the 6.0L. And I remember the first time I left my 1996 F-250 7.3L running when I hooked up my tt; let's just say I shut it off while hooking up after that! Great truck, though!
2013 Ram 3500 Megacab DRW Laramie 4x4, 6.7L Cummins, G56, 3.73, Maximum Steel, black lthr, B&W RVK3670 hitch, Retrax, Linex, and a bunch of options incl. cargo camera
2008 Corsair Excella Platinum 34.5 CKTS fifth wheel with winter package & disc brakes

wilber1
Explorer
Explorer
I'm one of those older folks.

I think government has to provide some kind of direction for the future because the market won't. We see it all the time. When fuel prices go down, sales of gas guzzlers go up and fuel efficient vehicles go down. When fuel prices go up, the opposite happens and in both cases manufacturers supply what the customer is buying.

Our air and water is cleaner than 50 years ago in spite of a 50% increase in population Whether you like how they have done it or not, the EPA has to get a lot of the credit for that.
"Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice" WSC

2011 RAM 3500 SRW
2015 Grand Design Reflection 303RLS

DieselBurps
Explorer
Explorer
Not everything the government tells you is true or accurate

And not everything old people tell you is true or accurate, I prefer to make decisions based on the facts.
When I was a kid, there were assemblies in school with groups telling us the Earth was going to enter another ice age if we didn't stop polluting. Now, oops, it's warming. Or is it? 11 year solar cycle, natural patterns...

Who am I to believe anecdotal stories or scientific research? I'll take the evidence any day.
Follow the money. It will show you who has what agenda.


I followed the money, and came back realizing every argument in denial of the scientific consensus on climate change had to do with how doing anything about it would cost money. Their bias is clear as day. Not impressed.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and funded by unintended consequences. Environmentalists used to love the hydroelectric power plants on the Columbia River. Now they hate them because "they warm the river". They used to love CFB's, and got laws in place to mandate them. Now they hate them. The list goes on.

Sounds like they were able to adapt their point of view based on the evidence instead of stuck in their old ways and views. Nothing wrong with changing your mind about something as new information comes to light, that is a sign of intelligence, unlike being stuck in your old ways. You should be applauding them for that.
Some of the older folks have been around long enough to know this. It might be wise to listen to them, and try to balance your views.

Many older folks saw the dirty air that existed in the metropolitan areas in 70's and are now saying thank god for the clean air act. It would be wise to listen to those folks.

GoPackGo
Explorer
Explorer
I completely agree with your post.

mkirsch
Nomad II
Nomad II
Frankly I don't believe that manufacturers would have willingly done a single solitary thing to reduce emissions without the EPA, ever. Developing that technology costs money, and why would you spend money when you can just continue to make what you've always made, the way you've always made it, and rake in the money?

You claim the buying public would have demanded cleaner burning vehicles. I sincerely doubt it. Most people have to directly experience something or they don't believe it exists. A lot of people here don't believe vehicular pollution is a problem because they've never been to a big city before emissions laws. They haven't experienced how awful the air was; it's fine out in the country or the small town where they live, so this whole pollution thing is just a load of hooey.

That said, the EPA is a good idea that has gone too far. There's a point of "good enough" but certain folks in power don't seem to think so. They're just going to keep pushing with the goal of cars running on happy thoughts and farting daisies out the exhaust pipe.

In some respects we've gone too far in the other direction already. Certain types of pollution washed out of the air by rain becomes potash in the soil. Potash is something necessary for proper soil balance, and growing healthy, bountiful crops. Healthy bountiful crops are essential to keeping everyone fed. Now farmers are finding the soil to be deficient of potash due to the excessively clean air, and are having to spread manufactured potash on to maintain soil balance.

What really amazes me is that there isn't enough money in the automotive and energy industries to quash this once and for all. There are lots of industries with vested interests in keeping things as they are or pushing for things to go the other way, yet there doesn't seem to be enough money to get it done?

Putting 10-ply tires on half ton trucks since aught-four.

Turtle_n_Peeps
Explorer
Explorer
ramgunner wrote:
daved9664 wrote:
As a 20 something year old Im happy to see emission regulations. Sure there are some hiccups afterword, but it puts the pressure on manufacturers to create technology that does not destroy our air quality, environment, mine and your children's and grand children's futures. Fossil fuels are an age old technology. Tesla found out how to create electricity out of thin air decades ago.... I think we can find a happy medium where these rich folks can make a few dollars while not destroying the environment. It's way over due for changes like these and Im not sorry if some older folk get upset about "scary changes" if it's for the better.


Just keep in mind that some of those "older folk" have enough experience under their belts to realize several things...

> Not everything the government tells you is true or accurate (lookup "downwinders" who were told there was no danger to them from above-ground nuclear testing). When I was a kid, there were assemblies in school with groups telling us the Earth was going to enter another ice age if we didn't stop polluting. Now, oops, it's warming. Or is it? 11 year solar cycle, natural patterns...

> Follow the money. It will show you who has what agenda.

> The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and funded by unintended consequences. Environmentalists used to love the hydroelectric power plants on the Columbia River. Now they hate them because "they warm the river". They used to love CFB's, and got laws in place to mandate them. Now they hate them. The list goes on.

When you allow government to regulate something, all of these factors come into play - often with the last one being what ends up hurting everyone.

Some of the older folks have been around long enough to know this. It might be wise to listen to them, and try to balance your views.

I've heard from some "enviro-people" that feel no one should have anything bigger than a Prius. When asked about towing a trailer, or living in an RV (which can reduce your carbon footprint), it was actually suggested that "you should have to pay someone with a super clean truck that pays big taxes to offset their emissions to tow it for you, or just leave it where it is".

There is a value to freedom. Some are eager to give up their freedom with the promise that "they" will take care of you. Be careful what you ask for.


^^^^^ good post right there. ๐Ÿ™‚
~ Too many freaks & not enough circuses ~


"Life is not tried ~ it is merely survived ~ if you're standing
outside the fire"

"The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly."- Abraham Lincoln