2112 wrote:
This one cracks me up. Unbelievable no matter where it is
Can I post WTF on this site ???
As far as a electrical outlet without a box in the wall goes..
Is it possible? sure, but highly doubtful.
Thin walls of a RV make wiring standard outlets with a box a challenge but not impossible.
They make these..
Click For Full-Size Image.
Which are low profile shallow work box with a "side car", the box is mounted on the other side of the wall and the outlet helps to hold the box in place. They are hidden and unless you know what you are working with are easily mistaken for having no workbox behind it.
The side car provides the means for the wire to enter/exit and enough fill room to accommodate more than one Romex entry/exit. Older boxes like the grey one do not have any clamps, the newer in blue does have plastic clamps that when you push the Romex through prevents the Romex from pulling back out.
My first TT used the all in one vampire tap "speed wire" outlets, my current TT used the low profile shallow work boxes with side car..
I will take the low profile workbox with side car and real outlets any time of the day.. It shows the manufacturer actually took quality to a higher level.
Is it possible? sure, but highly doubtful.
Thin walls of a RV make wiring standard outlets with a box a challenge but not impossible.
They make these..
Click For Full-Size Image.Which are low profile shallow work box with a "side car", the box is mounted on the other side of the wall and the outlet helps to hold the box in place. They are hidden and unless you know what you are working with are easily mistaken for having no workbox behind it.
The side car provides the means for the wire to enter/exit and enough fill room to accommodate more than one Romex entry/exit. Older boxes like the grey one do not have any clamps, the newer in blue does have plastic clamps that when you push the Romex through prevents the Romex from pulling back out.
My first TT used the all in one vampire tap "speed wire" outlets, my current TT used the low profile shallow work boxes with side car..
I will take the low profile workbox with side car and real outlets any time of the day.. It shows the manufacturer actually took quality to a higher level.
To clarify what you may have seen, here is a look at a modern 30A 120V combo 120V/12V distribution panel with built in converter.
Click For Full-Size Image.
The right side is the 120V section, there are six square openings, those are for Romex wire. You push the Romex through and the plastic tabs act like clamps to prevent the Romex from being pulled out. Since the box is plastic, there is no need for anything to buffer the wire, it can't short to plastic and the tabs act as clamps.
You will also notice there are two completely separate ground and neutral bus bars, they are electrically isolated from each other and since the box is plastic they can't conduct through the plastic box.
Click For Full-Size Image.
The back side of the box the 120V side is on the left and you can see the 6 square holes for the Romex.
You can also see a bunch of red and black wires in the middle, those are 12V from the fuse panel. 12V since it is classified as low voltage the connections do not need to be made in electrical boxes and connections are made with wire nuts or crimps outside of the box.
The only cable that would need a clamp installed is the shore cord and the only reason is to prevent the shore cord from being pulled out.
Click For Full-Size Image.The right side is the 120V section, there are six square openings, those are for Romex wire. You push the Romex through and the plastic tabs act like clamps to prevent the Romex from being pulled out. Since the box is plastic, there is no need for anything to buffer the wire, it can't short to plastic and the tabs act as clamps.
You will also notice there are two completely separate ground and neutral bus bars, they are electrically isolated from each other and since the box is plastic they can't conduct through the plastic box.
Click For Full-Size Image.The back side of the box the 120V side is on the left and you can see the 6 square holes for the Romex.
You can also see a bunch of red and black wires in the middle, those are 12V from the fuse panel. 12V since it is classified as low voltage the connections do not need to be made in electrical boxes and connections are made with wire nuts or crimps outside of the box.
The only cable that would need a clamp installed is the shore cord and the only reason is to prevent the shore cord from being pulled out.
BurbMan wrote:Anon_Tech wrote:
...outlets with no boxes...
FYI, the outlets they use in RVs are designed to be installed without boxes in shallow-depth walls. The outlets have no exposed contacts and internal cable clamps. Are they using residential outlets with side screws?
The other stuff sounds pretty serious, especially in the main panel. I have the panel cover off in my Heartland Big Country and whoever wired it did a really neat and professional job, I was impressed.
Yes they are using residential outlets, screwed directly into cabinets. No boxes at all. I've hade to go through multiple units and replace all the outlets with enclosed RV ones.
Wade44 wrote:
Perhaps take a good look at the wiring in some of the junk that comes out of Indiana by the big guys. Thor, Forest River, Winnebago, Grand Design etc. I think you would get a good surprise if you poke around the receptacles, shore power connectors, and AC side of converters / distribution panels, and know what your looking for.
Those RVIA decals are a feely good joke and mean nothing.
The RVIA certifies nothing. All that decal says is the manufacturer agrees to follow NFPA1192 which is the National Fire Protection Association. Its a good faith honor system thing as there is no inspector from the NFPA, RVIA, or anyone else in any RV factory anywhere. Read the decal, "Manufacturer certifies".
RVIA is a big circle jerk. NEC article 511 is specifically for RVs though. I'll agree all manufacturers build these things as cheaply as possible. Some are better than others, but almost all of them do atleast try to be mindful of safety if not serviceability.
