Broken Frame on a RAM 3500

[deltabravo]

You may have seen pics of this truck and camper floating around the interwbez for the last few weeks.

Here's an article about it that was published earlier today.

Broken Frame on a RAM 3500

[jimh406]

mkirsch wrote:
Eh, no. I've tried pointing out parameters and telling people to decide for themselves, only to get beat down by the "The numbers are meaningless, just haul whatever you want! It's a DUALLY!" crowd. So much so that I've pretty much joined them.

I agree that some people think DRWs are invincible. Personally, I pointed out that there are probably just as many DRWs that are over GVWR as SRWs, or for that matter, all RVs.

I know many Class A owners never even think about being overloaded or checking their tire pressure. Amazing what you can learn talking to other RVers at campgrounds. 😄

[notsobigjoe]

Bedlam wrote:
Some of the camper weight ratings I have seen assume a 150 lb person in every seat. If you have six seating, that reduces your camper carrying rating by 900 lbs.

Chevy does it this way. I have a dually crew cab with 3 seats front and back, that's 900 pounds. This is probably the best thread I've read and participated In on this forum. The weight police pros and cons be darned, truck camping takes some thought to be realistically safe on and off the road. As we all see the price is really something. JMHO

[Grit_dog]

mkirsch wrote:
I find this whole thread hilarious. This forum has been dedicated to beating down "weight police" for years... "You don't need to worry about weight! GVWR is meaningless! It's a DUALLY! The AAM axle is rated for 11,000lbs! Just add up your tire capacities, slap in a set of airbags, and GO! If the tires don't add up to enough, get 19.5's! Nobody that's anybody pays attention to weight! It'll be fine!"

Now all of a sudden everybody's a weight police. "Oh he was 10lbs over GVWR! That's why his frame broke!"

Lol, you’re kinda right! Although to be fair I’ve generally been in the camp of srw trucks chassis can handle about what duallies can save for tires wheels and springs. Therefore they are under rated and no issue overloading to an extent. But if 1 ton Dooleys were under rated the same then they’d look like their class 4 and 5 cousins and those trucks wouldn’t have the much stouter chassis that they do have.
But in this guys case he was waaaay over the 14k gvw number which is still a very safe number for that truck. And he likely wasn’t over the real axle or tire/wheel rating. No flat tires and bent axles in that pic. Just a taco’d frame. Which even someone like him got 25k miles out of…..
He’s the reason that ratings exist, because not enough working material between the ears to know when he was pressing his luck.
That setup was likely around a full ton over the gvwr. Or 2 tons over a srw or 3 tons over a srw 2500. All with the same basic chassis.
See now why I’m not worried about 4000lbs in the back of a 2500 hurting the truck itself?

[Grit_dog]

Groover wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
Another good point. No one knows how his rear suspension was set up. But one thing is certain, that camper won’t haul on that truck without something else besides the stock springs.

Unless you are bottoming out the suspension going with stiffer springs adds stress to the frame. The suspension is there to absorb the bumps. Making it stiffer reduces that capability.

Agreed for the most part. And bottoming out stresses the frame right over the rear axle. Been there done that got the T shirt! (To be fair I’m the guy that welded the frame back together when I was in high school, I would have been smart enough to not put a 7klb skid steer along with a spade attachment in an approximately 2000lb dump bed with a 20klb tag trailer loaded sitting on the factory 2” receiver!). Even before I knew as much about vehicles I could do basic math and my eye sight was pretty good! Lol

However excessive cycling of the suspension also puts stress on components. Typically minor elastic deflections that after xxx,xxx number of cycles work hardens steel and leads to brittle fractures. (At least that’s what I learned in mechanics of materials and metallurgy courses after I saw it happen in the real world).

[Grit_dog]

Good to see ya Kayteg!!

[Kayteg1]

I don't know if I will be back to this forum, but for years I've been pointing how important is COG in TC combo. Lot of members downplayed the issue.
So in case of this Dodge the frame could bend this way only when COG was way behind rear axle.
Would COG be properly adjusted on top, or in front of axle, the rear bending forces would not exist.

[Kayteg1]

I no longer own TC and come here just because of those articles.
The pictures of similar broken Ford have been cruising this forum for years, but the limited information we had about Ford incident lead to believe that the owner welded tie-downs to the frame, what weakened it and then very heavy trailer on stinger did not help.
This Dodge incident is another story as the truck did not have any modifications and broke plain under camper weight.
Just for the record, I drove my 2017 F350 with 12' Fleetwood basement camper and coming back from Alaska, with collection of rocks and beer, the scales measured camper at close to 9000 lb.
Ford took it just fine, but my model was SuperCab and RWD with diesel.
Also for the record, the aluminum body dually Ford did not require any suspension reinforcement for the weight. I put Sulastic hangers for comfort and that was it.

Just saying

[Fisherman]

Maybe next time the owners will pay attention to numbers and not make hap hazard guesses.

[JimK-NY]

mkirsch wrote:

Now all of a sudden everybody's a weight police. "Oh he was 10lbs over GVWR! That's why his frame broke!"

Did you notice the post from someone with the same truck? CCC is 4738#. The owner of the broken truck had a camper with a base weight of 5000#. Water and propane bring that to 5500#. Accessories are not included. We can see solar, awnings and a roof rack. I can't see if there is an A/C unit or a generator neither are in the base weight. At a minimum the weight will be 6000#. That does not include the bikes or rack, tools, kitchen gear, food, bedding, air compressor and personal items very likely totally well over 1000#. Best guess is this unit was in the range of 7000-7500# or roughly 2500-3000# over the CCC. In addition there is clearly an issue with center of gravity.

Sadly beginners and often experienced truck camper users often fail to realize how heavy their rigs are.

[mkirsch]

jimh406 wrote:

mkirsch wrote:
This forum has been dedicated to beating down "weight police" for years..

Of course, it's been more even than that. The weight police have had their say for at least 17 years. That's as far as I go back here. 😉

People have been pointing out what the parameters are. Each person gets to decide what they do next.

Eh, no. I've tried pointing out parameters and telling people to decide for themselves, only to get beat down by the "The numbers are meaningless, just haul whatever you want! It's a DUALLY!" crowd. So much so that I've pretty much joined them.

An even better twist to this little soap opera is that this guy was DENIED WARRANTY!!! Thought that "never happened" guys. "How are they ever going to know?" Right?

[jimh406]

mkirsch wrote:
This forum has been dedicated to beating down "weight police" for years..

Of course, it's been more even than that. The weight police have had their say for at least 17 years. That's as far as I go back here. 😉

People have been pointing out what the parameters are. Each person gets to decide what they do next.

[mkirsch]

I find this whole thread hilarious. This forum has been dedicated to beating down "weight police" for years... "You don't need to worry about weight! GVWR is meaningless! It's a DUALLY! The AAM axle is rated for 11,000lbs! Just add up your tire capacities, slap in a set of airbags, and GO! If the tires don't add up to enough, get 19.5's! Nobody that's anybody pays attention to weight! It'll be fine!"

Now all of a sudden everybody's a weight police. "Oh he was 10lbs over GVWR! That's why his frame broke!"

[joerg68]

If only a device existed with which you could find out your actual vehicle and axle weights... oh, wait...

When you are running a TC on your truck it is always a good idea to have the rig weighed. Most of the stated weights are optimistic and disregard certain details. And you can make optimistic weight assumptions and calculations about your rig all you want. None of that will alter physics.

Surely the numbers on the door sticker are no hard limits. But they are there for a reason.

[Groover]

Grit dog wrote:
Another good point. No one knows how his rear suspension was set up. But one thing is certain, that camper won’t haul on that truck without something else besides the stock springs.

Unless you are bottoming out the suspension going with stiffer springs adds stress to the frame. The suspension is there to absorb the bumps. Making it stiffer reduces that capability.

[Grit_dog]

Another good point. No one knows how his rear suspension was set up. But one thing is certain, that camper won’t haul on that truck without something else besides the stock springs.