Buying first camper. Few simple questions...

[Danattherock]

Found the forum last night and read till 0300. Great info and community here. Wife and I got 9 month old son and 18 month old German Shepherd. All of a sudden, tent camping is losing its luster. Thinking a travel trailer might be the ticket. We are in south central NC. I have a 2004 Tahoe 2WD with 5.3 liter. As I recall, tow weight max is around 6500-6700 lbs. As wife and are going to look at campers in the next few days, I was hoping for some insights here. Few quick questions for anyone with the time to share.


Would a 4,500 lb camper be about right for my tow vehicle?

Do you use generators or is all power supplied by just plugging into 120 volt at most campgrounds. Life long tent camper here. Just rented a few RV's in Alaska, but was in campgrounds that were closed for the season.

What are the 'hidden cost' of running around with a travel trailer? All hobbies have them. Ha ha.

Is storing under carport good enough or is indoor storage worthwhile. Looking at adding a second garage anyway, curious if it would be worthwhile long term to store indoors or if it would be over kill. Other option is the large aluminum carport cover beside my other garage. Gravel on ground. Curious about proper storage.

Is there a certain size you might suggest. Guess weight limitations on my towing capacity will dictate much. Would like to sleep 4 adults and 2-3 kids at times. Mostly will be wife, son, dog, and I. Generally speaking, should I focus on 25', 27', 30', etc...

What kind of insurance do you guys/gals suggest. Curious what the annual cost is. Looking at a $15,000-25,000 camper. Again, wondering about the hidden cost.

Last but not least, where do you take these things. I have intentionally avoided the very campgrounds I now seek in the past. We usually tent camp in primitive settings. I have never been to a KOA. Clueless. But the main thing I need to justify this purchase is what kind of trips we could take. We are big fly fisherman, fresh and salt. We got numerous kayaks, canoes, and two whitewater rafts. We also golf and enjoy photography and day hikes. Love the mountains and the coast. Just wondering where you folks have been. I am not interested in pulling into the same campground each weekend. Want to get out 4-12 hour drives from home. We are travel nurses and work 3 days a week. Want to get ideas on 3-5 day trips. Anywhere from Florida to West Virginia.


Thanks for any ideas. I am sure your patience wears thin with all the noob questions.




Dan
Rockingham,NC

[hddecker]

Jerallen wrote:

Danattherock wrote:
Going to Camping World in Fayetteville tomorrow morning. Can't wait to check out a few campers

Be wary as there are unscrupulous salesmen out there that will tell you you can "tow anything on the lot".

Clubhouse's points about weight specific to your Tahoe will be important as you make your decision.

Good luck!

+2

The salesman only has one interest and that is to sell you.

For some insite go here.

http://www.rvsleuth.com/how-to-get-a-great-deal/

And for some help with weights go here.

http://changingears.com/rv-sec-tow-vehicles-understand.shtml

Good luck in your quest for your dream trailer.

[sgrizzle]

We were tent campers from way back...we still have four totes packed and ready to go...BUT we bought our first camper 4-5 years ago and I don't think I'll ever go back!

I agree with Randu, look at the features, but do not buy new until you are SURE you will be a lifer. We bought an entry-level, used camper to make sure we like the whole camping experience. We paid $6k for a 27' bunkhouse (BH). We had it for 3 years and loved it! We took it last year to the Grand Canyon and parts of Colorado (3500 mile trip for us in Nebraska). This past year, we sold it and made a slight profit and we upgraded to a 2009 30' BH with slide-out and we made it to Yellowstone!

The point is, unless you have money to burn, you can get a great trailer to help you get started. I had a friend of mine buy a brand-new trailer and he took it out once, then sold it. Took a huge loss.

We still camp at the state and national campgrounds. We prefer those to the "parking lot" style "campgrounds." You can still camp as comfortable or as rustic as you like. It is your trip!

The gas cost is huge, but the lodging costs are slashed! Our 10 day Yellowstone/Grand Teton we spent $1,100.00 in fuel, but only $250 is camp fees. We ate out in a restaurant, once. We spent our money on fuel and recreational activities. Had the time of our lives, my 3 sons (16,13, 10 and two irish setters and my dear wife (DW)!

Good Luck and enjoy! I can't wait to retire and start camping all of the time! (Just 11 more years until I can retire!)

[Danattherock]

Thanks for the continued great advice. We saw lots of campers today, focussing on 25-27' trailers in the 4500-5000 lb range. Nice, but not Keystone Passport 3180 nice. Trade offs all around. But the Shasta, Bullet, and Kodiak gave us some insights. Pretty big difference in build quality although pricing was all in the $20-25k range. Lots to learn, but we are fumbling through it steadily. Thanks for the help here.


Dan

[jamnw]

Dan
I have 2 boys and a dog.
To me... That keystone is not a good floor plan for a family.
It would be great for a couple who occasionally had company.

We have been camping for 7 years. Mark my words... One if not both of your kids will get sick in the bed.
Do you want them getting sick on the dinette or sofa?
I have 2 bunks, each has a privacy curtain. I put a zippered plastic sheet on both. I'm so glad I did.

As stated before, it's nice to be able to put the kids to bed and still sit in the dinette or get up early and not have to tiptoe over sleepers.

Congrats and good luck.

[APT]

The truth about RVing: It isn't cheap nor does it save any time. Hidden expenses? Fuel and accessories. How many posts on here about "ways to improve fuel economy" when people discover they are getting 7-10mpg? You can't, or likely won't, so budget for that.

I spent about $1k on gear after having everything I thought I needed as a tent camper. Not everything is necessary, but they are all useful.

Insurance is cheap, $200/yr is on the high end.

I recommend this: Spend the $15-25k on a used crew cab 3/4 ton pickup. Sell the Tahoe for whatever, $10k? Then you can buy just about any used TT you want. And sell it in a couple years for $8k when you learn enough about what you want to upgrade.

4500 pounds dry, 4 adults and 2-3 kids is tight not very realistic. Fine to sleep for a night of two. Not so much when you are stuck inside for a whole day in the rain.

Floorplan, floorplan, floorplan. 25' long TT means you are fitting an efficiency apartment (200 square feet) of kitchen, bathroom, and bunks? There are a lot of bad floorppans out there. Everything is a compromise. Role play and act out to narrow down what you like.

[krobbe]

Dan - We're trying to teach you to fish instead of just giving you one.
Check out this Travel Trailer Weight Calculator to throw some numbers around to get an idea of what is safe to tow for your vehicle or any one you see fit to buy after you find that perfect TT. This is where I started to figure out what it all means.

[Robby9]

A common suggestion around here is that you should keep the weight of a fully loaded TT under 80% of your towing capacity to maximize towing comfort. Foryour Tahoe that would be about 5,500lbs.

Most 1/2 ton pickups would tow the camper your looking at without problems. Just make sure the pickup has the heavy duty factory tow package.

If you're really stuck on SUV's, Ford Expeditions equipped with HD towing option can handle about 9,000 lbs, if I remember correctly. My first camper was 31' and had a dry weight of approx 5,400 lbs. I towed it with a 2008 Expedetion and it handled the camper OK; not great, but doable.

When camper shopping, just add 1,000lbs to the dry weight to give you better idea of what you'll actually be pulling. Just putting on propane tanks and a battery will add 150lbs.

Also, if you're still interested in rear living room plans,I would urge you to reconsider that. As you're child grows, he will want his own bed and a place for his stuff,even if it's just a bunk.

[clubhouse]

The only way to know how much you can tow is to load the Tahoe exactly as you would to go camping if you were towing a trailer (people, pets, stuff, fuel) and hit a scale. Then make 2 calculations ...

GVWR - Actual Tahoe weight = Available Tongue Weight
GCVWR - Actual Tahoe weight = Available for a loaded and ready to camp TT

Now with these numbers...

1) Don't buy a TT with a GVWR higher than GCVWR - Tahoe.
2) Make sure 13-15% of the TT GVWR doesn't exceed the Tahoe GVWR-Actual Tahoe weight.

The Tahoe published tow rating is relatively irrelevant, the GCVWR and Tongue Weight will really tell you what you can tow.

Without these numbers, based on my experience I'd say your Max is TT @ 6000 and Tongue weight of 750

[Danattherock]

Thanks for all the great advice guys.


For insight, please answer the following.

What is max trailer weight my Tahoe (rated to tow 6700 lbs) can safely tow?

What tow vehicle rating (if buying another TV) would I need to safely tow the Keystone Passport 5900 lb trailer we saw today?

Heading to three RV sales places near Greensboro (central NC) at 0730. Can't wait to see some more campers. I know we are buying one. Wife fell asleep with Trailer Life on her chest tonight. She is as excited as I am. Only question is will I have to sell my Tahoe, buy another vehicle, then buy a camper. A far more costly and time consuming route obviously.



Dan

[clubhouse]

Danattherock wrote:
Well crap. Guess I either need to sell my Tahoe and buy a suburban or find a smaller camper. Heading a few hours up the road in the morning to check out a few RV sales places. Any suggestions on suitable models to look at. Any suggestion on max trailer weight for my tow vehicle?


My 2004 Chevy Tahoe 2WD LT

Vortec 5.3 liter V8
3.42 rear axle
Stabiltrac vehicle stability
6700 lb tow capacity based on this websites tow guide
Door sticker for cargo capacity was right at 1,500 lbs as I recall


The dealer today was talking about a sway bar or something another. $1200 installed. Not sure but the guy said it would make the car tow better. Keep the trailer from fish tailing. Not sure to be honest, but sounds like this camper is too big for my rig either way.



Dan

If you upgrade to Suburban, make sure you look at the 3/4 ton model. A 1/2 suburban doesn't get you much more than your Tahoe. This is what I wanted, but went with the PU because of the actual receiver limits of the suburban. If you get '07 or later you'll get a 6 speed which is much better than you current Tahoe, however that is also where GM made the receiver integral to the frame, you can't upgrade it, and the receiver limit with Weight Distribution is rated for only 1000 lbs. Quickly will get 1k tongue weights on the size of TT you are looking at.

It's not coincidence there are so many more Pick-up pulling TT vs SUVs. And it's also not a coincidence so many pick-ups are 3/4 ton or larger when looking at >30' trailers with slides.

I know this can get frustrating but hang in there, you'll figure it out.

Lastly my family of 5 has transitioned nicely from a SUV to crewcab pick-up. The dog now rides in his crate in back, and I really appreciate having a place to haul firewood, generator, extra fuel without bringing any of it inside.

Once you settle on TT/TV combination take you time to learn about weight distribution and sway control options. Dont let the dealer just install what they sell, make sure it's what you want.

[clubhouse]

Danattherock wrote:
Spent a few hours at Camping World and had a sales rep show us many campers, new and used. Left with a clear favorite, the Keystone Passport 3180 RE. Weight is 5930 lbs and my vehicle rating is for 6,700 as I understand it. Wondering if we are biting off more than we can chew (tow). Other than that one concern, we are quite smitten. Any opinions on our vehicle safely towing this model?



Dan

Dan, you knew the answer before you even typed the question. That is just plain too much TT for your Tahoe.

This were I went wrong, I went with a second choice trailer because it fit as opposed to just upgrading TV right there then getting what I wanted to begin with. As I mentioned earlier, we now have the TV I should have had originally and now strongly thinking of the upgrade, thus loosing thousands because of the premature sell/trade-in of out TT.

[69_Avion]

rfryer, great advice. It is obvious you have been doing this for a while.

[rfryer]

I think you’ve gotten some good advice already but I’ll throw in my two cents anyway. Don’t get in a hurry; look at many TT’s at RV shows, dealers, etc. to know what’s out there. Load up your TV the same as you would for a trip and weigh it so you know what your real payload is. You’re almost sure to run out of payload before you reach the max tow capacity. Then you can narrow down the selections to those that will work. Don’t take what a salesman says as far as what you can pull; their job is to sell TT’s not recommend the best one for you.

Recognize that you’re going to have to choose between desirable goals, RV’s are all compromises. If you want to do mountains and less developed campgrounds, smaller and lighter is better at the expense of room and amenities. Commercial campgrounds, no problem, get as big as you like at the expense of access to many scenic roads and more pristine campgrounds. Along that line, you mentioned primitive settings, hiking, and fly fishing. To me that says mountains and would exclude anything over 25’ and I’d personally probably be a little uneasy with that. Of course one can camp closer to civilization and drive back into an area.

Don’t pay any attention to dry weights, they’re useless and you won’t be pulling an empty TT. If you have a good idea of the loaded weight use it, otherwise use the GVWR of the TT. And avoid pulling too close to your capacity. You can get away with it to an extent in flat country but mountains will not be a pleasant tow.

I’m unsure of what “hidden” costs are associated with a TT, though depreciation is probably the most ignored. There will be routine maintenance and repair costs which are generally not that serious on a TT. And the usual taxes, insurance and registration of any vehicle. With the TT’s you mentioned you’ll also be looking at a wd/sway hitch, too, but they’re not unduly expensive. And of course the usual goodies you’ll want, hoses, blocks, etc. that are cheap.

I generally take mine anywhere I please, it’s only 16’. I usually go pretty far back in on national forest roads and boondock, though I also often dry camp in NF campgrounds, too. I’ve also spent a lot of time in national parks. I consider commercial parks an act of desperation and I can probably count the ones I’ve stayed in over 30 years on my fingers. The same with state parks, they’re usually a bit overdeveloped for my taste.

It’s possible to get by without a generator, I’ve never had one. I can get by the best part of a week, then I have to recharge. But I’m very frugal and don’t carry tv’s and the like. I’ve considered it but don’t think engine sounds belong in the cg’s I frequent. Solar doesn’t work because I’m usually always in heavy trees. So I’ll probably get a spare battery to trade off while the other is recharged.

[Danattherock]

Seattle Lion wrote:

BTW: I can't convince my 1 yr old Golden Retriever to get into the TT. We end up taking her to a kennel. Any thoughts?

My dog has us trained. You might post this question on one of the many dog forums. I am sure you would get some creative training solutions. Couldn't imagine putting dog in the kennel. Your pooch is missing out and I bet the solution could be quite simple.



Dan