Converted to Lithium-Ion be careful.

[jimh406]

I know a few people have converted. This article although not truck camper specific warns of the dangers of unsupervised Lithium-Ion charging.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Conception-boat-fire-Coast-Guard-warns-mariners-14432894...

[c_traveler2]

Print one subjective article about lithium batteries and people run amok. My brother has lived in Ventura since the early 70's and know's many divers and fishermen that have been on the Conception over the years, none of them who knew that boat wouldn't sleep below deck, they called the berths below "coffin bunks", no way to get out in case of a fire.

Since they just got the remains of the boat on dry land maybe they might be able to find the cause or not,anything else is pure speculation!

[markchengr]

I just sent back a jump starter with a lithium iron phosphate battery. It was useless to me as I wanted a 12 volt power supply for inflating rafts at a launch site and it was designed only to jump start a dead battery. UPS required a sticker on the package that said in big red letters "Danger Contains Lithium Battery. Do Not Ship By Air". I guess they're not taking any chances.

[3_tons]

By design LiFePo4 has a relatively benign chemistry, via less energy density...

[phemens]

Thanks for the link, interesting point on reconditioning.

[cewillis]

work2much wrote:

Here is a short article on 5 common lithium battery types.
http://synergyfiles.com/2015/09/5-types-of-lithium-ion-batteries/

Thanks for the link. Good to know.

[Photomike]

jaycocreek wrote:
I have never understood the new RV internet standards,especially for batteries that don't really last any longer than the inexpensive ones..I just sold a 2010 travel trailer with the 7 year old group 27 batteries that came with it.They still held a charge well and only cost about $100 to replace if needed...

As for the Lithium batteries and fires,one word Samsung...

Not knocking those that choose to buy expensive batteries for there RV,I just don't see the benefit myself for my needs.

I think a lot is that people want to play or experiment with ideas. They are not necessarily better ideas they are just different. I read a lot about needing smart charging systems, special meters and batteries and so much is just people's opinions.

I remember my Dad would buy an old car battery from the wreckers, toss it in his VW van and it would run for years powering his lights, fan, etc. If he did something stupid like forgot a light was on and killed the battery he would head back to the wreckers and grab another. Cost $20.

Today we put $1000 in with controllers, batteries, etc and we still kill the battery from doing something stupid.

[RickW]

1. I used to dive a lot and did underwater photography for many years. Back then, photographers were few and cameras expensive.

2. In order to get good underwater photographs, you need lots and lots of light. My flashes used over a pound of NiCad batteries. I would regularly have 3 large chargers plugged in at a time. It was only flashlights and cameras charging back then. Now, everyone has things to charge, especially overnight.

3. The most contested real estate on a live aboard dive boat is the outlet(s) and table where you charge things. Divers pack an extra power strip to be sure there are enough plug ins for their personal needs. A few outlets and lots of chained power strips.

4. I reserve judgement on the cause, but a battery fire is a real possibility, especially if someone had a home made or cheaply made Li battery pack for an underwater scooter, drone, video or flash system.

FYI I was aboard one of the three boats of this company in the 80's. It was hard enough to get out of the bunk area at mealtime, I cannot imagine efficient egress in an emergency. My thoughts and prayers for the victims and their family.

I can see new regs coming that require Li batteries brought onboard be charged in a fireproof container. There also may be a certification for batteries that have a "fireproof" battery management system. We may learn what Li system is most appropriate for your TC.

[SidecarFlip]

camperdave wrote:

SidecarFlip wrote:
I'll stick with my conventional flooded cell and AGM batteries thank you. If the hybrid ones ever get in line price wise with conventional batteries, I may try them. Until then, no way.

Can you imagine using flooded lead acid batteries in your cell phone? lol.

I don't have a cell phone.....:W

[Kayteg1]

work2much wrote:
They are pretty idiot proof.

Is there such a thing?

[work2much]

All of the consumer grade drop in lithium batteries on the market today have a BMS that controls temperatures, voltages, cell balancing and short circuit protection. They are pretty idiot proof.

[camperdave]

jaycocreek wrote:
I agree and I am not knocking anyone who chooses to use them in there RV as these people did and were glad they had the BMS warning system..

I don't think anyone would suggest using Li cells of any kind without a BMS. My phone shuts off charging when it's too hot. My car cuts waaay back and runs a cooling fan when it's too hot.

My experience on my old CALB LiFePo4 cells was that they didn't heat at all if I stay under .3c when charging (39a on my 130ah cells), but I can imagine different cells are different.

[jaycocreek]

I agree and I am not knocking anyone who chooses to use them in there RV as these people did and were glad they had the BMS warning system..

Lithium batteries installed in Lance camper.

When we installed the lithium battery in Lance in the first place, I wanted to make sure to keep it inside. My thinking was to avoid this too-cold/too-hot discussion altogether. Because, if it’s comfortable in the van for humans, it’s comfortable for the battery. But just putting the battery inside wasn’t enough. I hadn’t counted on two things.

First, the battery was installed inside a closed compartment. This keeps it somewhat (but not completely) isolated from the temperature inside the van. That’s what I rectify with the project in this video.

Second, I’ve learned that charging the battery – especially at rates of 100 Amps or more – can really cause the battery to heat up. In fact, charging the battery causes it to heat up more than dis-charging it.

So on a recent trip we were:

driving across the desert
charging the battery at over 100A
keeping the battery sealed up in its compartment near the skin of the van.
And our battery got really hot. In fact, it got up over 131 degrees Fahrenheit, and the Battery Management System (BMS) shut the show down. When the battery’s internal temperature dropped back down to a safe level, it just turned itself on again. So I did some checking with Lithionics, who makes our battery, and found out that their BMS enforces two over-temperature conditions.

At temperatures of 114 degrees Fahrenheit and above, charging the battery is not allowed.
At temperatures of 132 degrees Fahrenheit and above, discharging the battery is not allowed.
It does this through a battery temperature sensor that is internal to the battery (not just surface temperature or the temperature in the battery compartment). These limits are set by Lithionics to prevent damaging the battery. I had no idea that our battery got that hot, but now I know. Time will tell how well my venting solution works.

The Key Takeaway
But here’s the big point. If my battery was NOT protected by the BMS, I could have done serious damage to it. SO – if you’re spending the money to upgrade to lithium batteries, it really pays to make sure that your batteries are protected by a solid BMS.

I know that the systems offered today by Winnebago and Coachmen (Volta and Xantrex systems, respectively) are protected by a BMS. Other manufacturers? Maybe, but I simply don’t know. Drop-in lithium replacements? I don’t know. “Roll your own” buy-a-bunch-of-cheap-cells-and-wire-them-together-yourself systems? Probably not.

So there you have it. I’ll be watching my battery’s internal temperature closely in the coming months, so we’ll see how well this mod works.

[Lwiddis]

"The actual bulletin referenced did, however, focus on a major issue, lack of exit routes"

And today we learned the entire crew was asleep. That's why a criminal investigation has been opened.

[phemens]

Sure, and getting up in the morning and putting on pants brings a risk of falling and breaking your neck.
As with any other technology, risk will never be 0, but needs to be measured in context. 7 reports of battery packs over several 100,000 laptops. Bet that there were more issues with someone getting injured because they were physically hit by a laptop than that.
I have LIFePO4 batteries in my 5er. Guess what, I also have 100's of pounds of LP in canisters. Funny how no one constantly brings that up...