Converted to Lithium-Ion be careful.

[jimh406]

I know a few people have converted. This article although not truck camper specific warns of the dangers of unsupervised Lithium-Ion charging.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Conception-boat-fire-Coast-Guard-warns-mariners-14432894...

[work2much]

jaycocreek wrote:

work2much wrote:

jaycocreek wrote:


As for the Lithium batteries and fires,one word Samsung...

That's a lot like saying:

As far a diesel trucks and reliability, one word, Ford6.0

Lithium battery fires go far beyond just Samsung cell phones..

On airplanes

There have been dozens of aircraft fires caused by lithium batteries?, so many that the batteries are no longer welcome as cargo on passenger flights.

Tesla

In August, a Tesla electric car caught fire during a promotional tour in southwest France

Hoverboards

Hoverboards?, or self-balancing scooters, have been linked with at least 99 electrical fires in the U.S., according to the the Consumer Product Safety Commission

Computer batteries

In June HP recalled nearly 50,000 HP, Compaq, HP ProBook, HP ENVY, Compaq Presario, and HP Pavilion computers after seven reports of battery packs overheating, melting or charring, including four reports of property damage totaling about $4,000.

Lithium batteries are not without there issues..

None of these are LifePO4 chemistry lithium batteries.

That is the point. You need to dig down farther. Lithium is a broad type of battery. Within that group there are subsets with differing chemistries. You are welcome to lump them all together with respect to their safety but you wouldn't be accurate doing so. Lithium iron phosphate batteries do not have a history of catching on fire. They are not used in laptops, cell phones, cars, or hover boards.

[jaycocreek]

work2much wrote:

jaycocreek wrote:


As for the Lithium batteries and fires,one word Samsung...

That's a lot like saying:

As far a diesel trucks and reliability, one word, Ford6.0

Lithium battery fires go far beyond just Samsung cell phones..

On airplanes

There have been dozens of aircraft fires caused by lithium batteries?, so many that the batteries are no longer welcome as cargo on passenger flights.

Tesla

In August, a Tesla electric car caught fire during a promotional tour in southwest France

Hoverboards

Hoverboards?, or self-balancing scooters, have been linked with at least 99 electrical fires in the U.S., according to the the Consumer Product Safety Commission

Computer batteries

In June HP recalled nearly 50,000 HP, Compaq, HP ProBook, HP ENVY, Compaq Presario, and HP Pavilion computers after seven reports of battery packs overheating, melting or charring, including four reports of property damage totaling about $4,000.

Lithium batteries are not without there issues..

[Kayteg1]

camperdave wrote:


Can you imagine using flooded lead acid batteries in your cell phone? lol.

I don't know what type of the battery it was, but I had first flip-phone that hit the market like 30 years ago.
Extended life battery was over 1" thick, was pulling my construction pants down and require recharging every 12 hr - even without air time.

[work2much]

jaycocreek wrote:


As for the Lithium batteries and fires,one word Samsung...

That's a lot like saying:

As far a diesel trucks and reliability, one word, Ford6.0

[jaycocreek]

I have never understood the new RV internet standards,especially for batteries that don't really last any longer than the inexpensive ones..I just sold a 2010 travel trailer with the 7 year old group 27 batteries that came with it.They still held a charge well and only cost about $100 to replace if needed...

As for the Lithium batteries and fires,one word Samsung...

Not knocking those that choose to buy expensive batteries for there RV,I just don't see the benefit myself for my needs.

[work2much]

camperdave wrote:

SidecarFlip wrote:
I'll stick with my conventional flooded cell and AGM batteries thank you. If the hybrid ones ever get in line price wise with conventional batteries, I may try them. Until then, no way.

Can you imagine using flooded lead acid batteries in your cell phone? lol.

Yea, but they would be a lot cheaper!

[work2much]

theoldwizard1 wrote:

camperdave wrote:
There is no evidence that lithium batteries caused or were a part of that fire. What a bad headline.

Very true !

work2much wrote:
The article doesn't mention lithium battery chemistries although the types of equipment used would indicate they are not LifePO4 which is heavy and bulky compared to other lithium batteries commonly found in the types of electronics described in the article.

The chemistry used in the RV industry is typically Lithium iron phosphate which is very stable and has a very low risk of fire. Between lithium battery chemistries there are different levels of safety and handling perimeters.

Some DIYers are building "power walls" out of used lithium cobalt (the most common lithium battery chemistry because of it high power to weight ratio 18650 battery cells because they can get them cheap. Cell quality, charging and discharging rates, balancing and temperature monitoring are CRITICAL in these applications. I would stay away from these except in small sizes, (cell phones, laptops and power tools).

That is sort of a fringe element in lithium rv solar. Rebuilding used cells from Tesla or other can be a viable option but does require a pretty deep dive into the technology of battery management systems and controls.These batteries/cells work very well in electric cars every day. In rv use they are working at a small percentage of their capabilities. I cringe though when I see some simplified solutions on youtube. On the other hand I have seen some very well designed systems that I would feel very safe using. As always when you become your own manufacturer you also become your own warranty station and possible a victim of your own design.

I chose a LifePO4 system for my own 'DIY" Not as light as other chemistries but very safe and still drastically better power to weight ration compared to led acid. Also simplified battery management strategies.

I think 99% of those out there now using lithium in the RV are using drop in batteries with integral BMS systems. Time has earned batteries like battle born a confident nod to their reliability and safety IMO.

[camperdave]

SidecarFlip wrote:
I'll stick with my conventional flooded cell and AGM batteries thank you. If the hybrid ones ever get in line price wise with conventional batteries, I may try them. Until then, no way.

Can you imagine using flooded lead acid batteries in your cell phone? lol.

[theoldwizard1]

camperdave wrote:
There is no evidence that lithium batteries caused or were a part of that fire. What a bad headline.

Very true !

work2much wrote:
The article doesn't mention lithium battery chemistries although the types of equipment used would indicate they are not LifePO4 which is heavy and bulky compared to other lithium batteries commonly found in the types of electronics described in the article.

The chemistry used in the RV industry is typically Lithium iron phosphate which is very stable and has a very low risk of fire. Between lithium battery chemistries there are different levels of safety and handling perimeters.

Some DIYers are building "power walls" out of used lithium cobalt (the most common lithium battery chemistry because of it high power to weight ratio 18650 battery cells because they can get them cheap. Cell quality, charging and discharging rates, balancing and temperature monitoring are CRITICAL in these applications. I would stay away from these except in small sizes, (cell phones, laptops and power tools).

[SidecarFlip]

I'll stick with my conventional flooded cell and AGM batteries thank you. If the hybrid ones ever get in line price wise with conventional batteries, I may try them. Until then, no way.

[work2much]

The article doesn't mention lithium battery chemistries although the types of equipment used would indicate they are not LifePO4 which is heavy and bulky compared to other lithium batteries commonly found in the types of electronics described in the article.

The chemistry used in the RV industry is typically Lithium iron phosphate which is very stable and has a very low risk of fire. Between lithium battery chemistries there are different levels of safety and handling perimeters.

I also noted in MSIB linked in the OP article regarding this fire:

"Reduce potential fire hazards and consider limiting the unsupervised charging of lithium-ion batteries and extensive use of power strips and extension cords :h Always a good idea. Many lithium batteries have a high charging rate and power consumption to do so. I could see where several high draw devices plugged into an undersized extension cord could definitely heat things up.

Here is a short article on 5 common lithium battery types.
http://synergyfiles.com/2015/09/5-types-of-lithium-ion-batteries/

Lithium batteries are now a mainstay in the RV industry. Many manufacturers offering lithium solutions right from the factory. I have yet to hear of any causing a fire but again the chemistry used in these batteries are pretty bullet proof in terms of catching fire.

[camperdave]

There is no evidence that lithium batteries caused or were a part of that fire. What a bad headline. The actual bulletin referenced did, however, focus on a major issue, lack of exit routes. Incredibly sad story, can you imagine being blocked in below deck on a boat during a fire?

It very well may have been battery related, but no one knows. If so, seems much more likely to be a house battery and wiring issue than a customers plugged in device.

[Kayteg1]

with my pop up blocker -the site requires subscription :S
I used that service few times years ago.
But at the time we did not have underwater scooters.
Sad story as I consider that one of the best scuba experience in the World. It beats Bahama experience.
Still the battery fire is a speculation. There is lot of equipment on those boats, including 6 foot wide charcoal barbecue.