Crossroads 331bh outside kitchen not plumbed to grey tank

[quarky]

hello,

looking for some guidance on my recent purchase of a 2017 crossroads sunset trail 331bh. the outside kitchen doesn't have a grey tank. even tho the termination valve is labeled "grey tank" on the handle. however it only has the termination valve "obstruction" which has to be open to drain or the sink will backfill also then noticedthere is no "grey tank 3" on the sensor panel...

so since this unit is certified according to RVIA ref plumbing nfpa 1192 this does not seem acceptable.

" 7.2.1.2
The waste outlet of all plumbing fixtures, other than toilets, shall be equipped with a drain fitting that provides an unobstructed waterway."

now... the service manager at crossroads rv says that that is the design of the unit and that code doesn't require a grey tank for an outside kitchen. I don't think this is right and would like feedback from the experts.

[Lantley]

Thanks drsteve.

[rbpru]

What exactly would you sue for? Like it or not, dumping the gray water from the outside kitchen on the ground is or was the standard operating procedure.

Some of the campgrounds I go to will not let you dump so on my PUP I put a bucket under the drain.

Unless you are in violation of the law there is not much that can be done.

[Lantley]

quarky wrote:
in a nutshell to the expert... what is the standard/code reference for an outside kitchen, add the outside shower while yet at it. I'm at the class action point!

In a bigger nutshell the RVIA is not a government entity. They are not making enforceable regulation. It is not mandatory that a unit meet their guidelines. Their certification is not legally binding.
So if the outdoor kitchen doesn't meet the guidelines you get a big Ooops and a pat on the back.
Put your effort into getting 25' of 1-1/2 diameter hose and figure how you're going to connect it to the discharge pipe of the RV.

[Hannibal]

Yet the dog relieves himself on everything in sight in campgrounds and their owner thinks nothing of it. What food borne illnesses would find their way into someone's food source from an outdoor sink draining a little water on the ground? A little discretion of what goes through and how much should suffice. Same with the outside shower. I've rinsed off many times with it or just a hose.

[Bobbo]

quarky wrote:
so since this unit is certified according to RVIA ref plumbing nfpa 1192 this does not seem acceptable.

" 7.2.1.2
The waste outlet of all plumbing fixtures, other than toilets, shall be equipped with a drain fitting that provides an unobstructed waterway."

Quoted from your original post. Makes no mention of a holding tank. Before we bought the trailer we currently own, we saw some very, very small trailers with sinks but NO tanks.

[quarky]

in a nutshell to the expert... what is the standard/code reference for an outside kitchen, add the outside shower while yet at it. I'm at the class action point!

[quarky]

Lantley wrote:
None of the first generation outdoors sinks drain into the grey tanks some have made various mods to address the situation. Some of the current newer units are now draining directly to the CG sewer via the RV sewer connection. They still do not drain into a grey tank but if you are on a site with a sewer this is a viable solution.
The issue is very basic the sink drain is lower than the grey tank. Water does not flow uphill. You can devise your own mod or use a 5 gallon bucket beneath the drain.
At this point the outdoor sink drain is a well known issue. I imagine 75% of them do not have drains . While the newer units are starting to have a provision for connecting directly to the sewer.

(2017 buddy!)

[quarky]

hey troubledwaters. your right... a search of the forum finds the evidence of the outside kitchen not having a tank. now show me in the certs and compliance the code reference which is required for today's trailers to support the fact that these are not required! that's what the focus is on my post! im not asking for a kiddie pool answer. might as well add the outside shower which also needs clarification on grey water requirements! grey/black are both waste water and require a containment device to the unit. why people with park models parking longterm get fined when they bypass such code/unit tank devices. u got the time to troll, enlighten me!

[Bobbo]

https://www.amazon.com/Reliance-Products-Aqua-Tainer-Gallon-Container/dp/B001QC31G6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UT...

[michigansandzil]

I noticed those on a few models while camper shopping this spring.
We avoided those models. What's the point of having a sink you can't drain?

[Lantley]

None of the first generation outdoors sinks drain into the grey tanks some have made various mods to address the situation. Some of the current newer units are now draining directly to the CG sewer via the RV sewer connection. They still do not drain into a grey tank but if you are on a site with a sewer this is a viable solution.
The issue is very basic the sink drain is lower than the grey tank. Water does not flow uphill. You can devise your own mod or use a 5 gallon bucket beneath the drain.
At this point the outdoor sink drain is a well known issue. I imagine 75% of them do not have drains . While the newer units are starting to have a provision for connecting directly to the sewer.

[drsteve]

quarky wrote:
far as pop ups.. that's why they arnt invited/allowed to most parks these days

You must stay at different parks than me. I've yet to see one that prohibits pop ups.

As for grey water, I don't think it matters how your rig is plumbed, there's no excuse for putting it on the ground, and no campground is going to allow it. Use a blue tote, or a bucket and dump it down your toilet. My solution would be to wash the dishes in the indoor sink.

Just another reason to pass on the outdoor kitchen, IMHO...

[wowens79]

Looks like you need an Aquatainer. https://www.amazon.com/Reliance-Products-Aqua-Tainer-Gallon-Container/dp/B001QC31G6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1494622632&sr=8-1&keywords=aquatainer

That's what we used for the sink when we had a popup. Pretty sorry of them to do it like that.

[troubledwaters]

You got your feedback from the experts - a connection to the grey tank is not required for outside kitchens. You are not the first person to discover this fact after purchase. It's a pretty common discovery as a search of this forum would quickly reveal. Sorry for your recent discovery but facts are facts.