Delamination

[apexadveture]

I need some advice,I have a outfitter apex 8 just under 2 years old,the sides of the camper has bubbles,looks like the mumps.
Manufacturer can't seem to fix the problem and it is getting worse,shall I seek legal advice? any body else have this problem?

Pullin my hair out

Dave

[TCINTN]

Had the same difficulty with our Apex 8 right after we had had it for less than a year. I sent pictures to Bob and he said he would repair.I had to drive from Tenn to Colorado and leave for winter while they worked on it.Then return in spring and pick up. I will say that Bob did what he said he would do accept they did not work on it until I got there.They removed the windows and trim and basically glued it back together. I sold camper because wife could not get into bed area because of injury.
Personally,I liked that camper because I had so much in and on it that made it a joy to travel and camp in some very remote places and always have plenty of power.
Bob was always very nice to us and took care of our problems. Just not to quickly.

[Freedom_49]

cewillis wrote:

Freedom 49 wrote:

May I ask what this post has to do with Dave's problem? Are you offering to use your superior service relationship with Bob Ward to help him?

Learn to read.

Following your helpful suggestion, I just carefully reread Dave's original post and your response. I see nothing in your post that addresses anything Dave asked about.

I had the misfortune of owning an Outfitter, but my problems were different than his, so I have nothing of value except commiseration that can help him in his situation. But thanks for your very helpful "my camper is great" information.

[cewillis]

Freedom 49 wrote:

May I ask what this post has to do with Dave's problem? Are you offering to use your superior service relationship with Bob Ward to help him?

Learn to read.

[Freedom_49]

cewillis wrote:
For a different perspective, I bought my Apex 8 new in 2007 after careful evaluation and comparison to the (only) two other campers that I considered comparable back then. . There were a couple of very minor issues that were corrected immediately. Those who have read my TRs and some other posts know that I have had a few (very few) problems since. They all were a result of
1) operator error
2) hard use on rough/non roads
3) other normal wear and tear
4) and a very small amount of bad luck, occasionally.
In every case, Outfitter - Bob Ward specifically - has helped me correct the problems at no cost to me, and some cost to them. (I did pay for an extra cabinet door once, for additional under seat access)
In summary, Outfitter's product and service have been outstanding in my case.
I should point out that when not in use my camper has been stored indoors, in a very well insulated space, in a very dry climate.

May I ask what this post has to do with Dave's problem? Are you offering to use your superior service relationship with Bob Ward to help him?

[cewillis]

For a different perspective, I bought my Apex 8 new in 2007 after careful evaluation and comparison to the (only) two other campers that I considered comparable back then. . There were a couple of very minor issues that were corrected immediately. Those who have read my TRs and some other posts know that I have had a few (very few) problems since. They all were a result of
1) operator error
2) hard use on rough/non roads
3) other normal wear and tear
4) and a very small amount of bad luck, occasionally.
In every case, Outfitter - Bob Ward specifically - has helped me correct the problems at no cost to me, and some cost to them. (I did pay for an extra cabinet door once, for additional under seat access)
In summary, Outfitter's product and service have been outstanding in my case.
I should point out that when not in use my camper has been stored indoors, in a very well insulated space, in a very dry climate.

[okan-star]

The small delam I had on the pas side in front of the window and near the radius at the cabover looked to be stress related , it was a hump , about 1 1/2 " long . I think it was because the cabover was sagging . When I sold it ,it sagged about 1"
Still not bashing:)

[sstan]

smh1040us wrote:
My 2006 Apex 8 has had the same problem for a few years now. In September 2012 I started a thread on this forum entitled "Outfitter exterior damage". For some reason this thread seems to have disappeared from the forum.

I have returned to Outfitter twice to have them look at the damage. They tell me that they must have received a bad batch of material. Since my camper was not under warranty there was nothing they could do. Outfitter did reluctantly offer to work on the damage, at my cost, if I could leave the camper with them for a few weeks. Since I live in Delaware this additional travel cost proved to be prohibited.

The area I live is on the east coast and close to a number of boat and RV dealers. The RV dealers were not interested in working on this problem. I did take the unit to a few boat repair business and they all agreed that the problem was not with the material but with the installation of the material to the camper. They also agreed that would not undertake trying to repair the problem.

After this summer I am going to try to sell my truck and camper with full disclosure of this problem to the buyer. My plan is to buy another camper, I don't know what make and model I will be buying, but I do know which one it will not be buying.

Mark

Mark,

I found your post from 2012 and remember researching the issue through Crane's library, they are the manufacturer of the Filon. At the time you posted this:

smh1040us wrote:
As a follow up to this discussion I did want to point out that this problem is not completely alien to Outfitter, although it would appear to be very rare. I was looking on the Outfitters Owner Site and found a discussion of this same problem under the topic "Caring for Exterior Walls / Exterior Fiberglass Repair. Below is a quote from Brian Ward dated Jul 19, 2007.

"Dave,

I have another unit here (about same age as yours) that this happened to. I think it comes from water leaks. What we found when removing the outer skin is that water found a way in through a broken spot in the caulking and went behind the fiberglass. Either because of freezing or some reaction with the fiberglass this happens. The few I have delt with all were super saturated behind the glass. On the older units we used a thinner glass (Stuff now not available then) that required to be bonded to luan before it was bonded to the wall (RV standard even today). Don't know if that is the reason or not. You should send me a pic. I have gotten Kemlite (the maker of the glass) to pay for it. Although it took me 6 months for that to happen. Either way, if you would like to have us fix it, send me a pic and I will forward it to them and try to get the ball rolling now.

Brian Ward"

This led me to believe you were also convinced that your blistering problem was a result of water infiltration. So I'm surprised to see that you now believe that your problem is due to the manufacturing process.

Here is a link to your earlier post that may help Link

[Bubtoofat]

One of the main reasons for me choosing Northstar is their "hung wall" construction.
Mike

[smh1040us]

My 2006 Apex 8 has had the same problem for a few years now. In September 2012 I started a thread on this forum entitled "Outfitter exterior damage". For some reason this thread seems to have disappeared from the forum.

I have returned to Outfitter twice to have them look at the damage. They tell me that they must have received a bad batch of material. Since my camper was not under warranty there was nothing they could do. Outfitter did reluctantly offer to work on the damage, at my cost, if I could leave the camper with them for a few weeks. Since I live in Delaware this additional travel cost proved to be prohibited.

The area I live is on the east coast and close to a number of boat and RV dealers. The RV dealers were not interested in working on this problem. I did take the unit to a few boat repair business and they all agreed that the problem was not with the material but with the installation of the material to the camper. They also agreed that would not undertake trying to repair the problem.

After this summer I am going to try to sell my truck and camper with full disclosure of this problem to the buyer. My plan is to buy another camper, I don't know what make and model I will be buying, but I do know which one it will not be buying.

Mark

[HMS_Beagle]

Osmotic blistering is very different that what I think was described in the opening post. In boats, it is almost exclusively below the waterline and almost exclusively in salt water. It occurs between the gelcoat and laminate, or in-between layers of laminate. They are likely to be small and round, up to 2 or 3 inches across. As soon as you take a blistered boat out of the water, the blisters begin to shrink. It's pretty easy to diagnose - poke a bubble with a knife or awl and water will squirt out, often with a lot of force.

A large bubble that you can push in with your hand is most likely delamination of the skin from the core material. That is failure of the glue bonding the two together and not osmotic blistering.

If the factory can't fix it, you might try injecting glue such as epoxy into a small hole in the middle, then vacuum bagging the area. It will be difficult to keep it from being a mess, and it is unlikely that glues will stick well because the inside is probably covered with whatever was used to laminate it in the first place. Often this seems to be some sort of contact cement, not much will stick to it.

[okan-star]

Geewizard wrote:
Oh my.....

Sure didn't think I'd be the catalyst for a brand war. So, please stop with the bashing already.

Silver, thanks for your usual in-depth analysis. I truly mean that.

Wasent bashing , sometimes the truth can be a painfull thing
If I had wanted to bash or air the full extent of all the issues it would have happened seven years ago
I think an Outfitter can be a terrific camper

[silversand]

Gee:

Cheers 🙂

[Geewizard]

Oh my.....

Sure didn't think I'd be the catalyst for a brand war. So, please stop with the bashing already.

Silver, thanks for your usual in-depth analysis. I truly mean that.

[okan-star]

I have blocked a lot of my Outfitter experience from my memory , and oh how times have changed , used to be if you besmirched Outfitter you would get blasted by hords of faithfull and start a family "cousins" brand war .
As I seem to remember though Outfitter used luon behind the filon until about 06
Here`s a pic of when I had to take out the water heater in my brand new camper "04" because it leaked when it rained or when you washed it.
The perforations on the Attwood water heater need to be sealed on the back side where the flange is folded over, wasent done , and the silicon caulk job they did on it was left to dry before the WH was set into it


here you can see the luon behind the filon and also see that the luon is not adhered to the aluminum frame

Since I payed for the right to express my opinion I`d say Outfitter is evolving trying to move past their problems , good thing , the bad is they have never taken full responsibility for the issues they have produced in past units, they don't replace bad units that they cant fix , they send you a tube of gorilla glue , smile and say nice things and hide behind their "great " reputation
To bad ,they have many happy owners , but too many left hanging miles away