Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[BertP]

Jim - My quip about the subject line was intended to point out that we are comparing diesels to gassers not medium duty to light duty engines. My initial response was to address your claim that a gasser cannot pull a trailer you have with a 450 on it. That simply isn't true. As for your Dodge having a GCVW of 20,000 lb, so does a Chevy with an 8.1 liter gasser. Will the 8.1 last as long as the CTD? No. Not because it is a gasser but because it is a light duty engine. Just as the DMax and PSD are rated as high as or higher than a CTD, they will also not last as long as the CTD because they, too, are light duty engines. Plus, what would happen if a turbo was added to the 8.1 like the CTD has? It would drag any CTD all over the back 40 without a problem. If you consider the weight difference between the 8.1 and the CTD, you will see that an 8.1 engined vehicle has a greater payload capacity than a similar CTD engined vehicle and it will out work the CTD.

I have a class 1 (class A in most places) drivers license and have spent time in and around diesels and gassers most of my life. I am not knocking diesels just pointing out that many of the long held beliefs about diesels are not necessarily true. Many knock gassers using claims that can't stand the light of day. The only real advantage that a diesel has over a gasser is in the area of fuel consumption. If the engineers were to develop a gasser that gets better fuel consumption numbers than diesels, you would see a resurgence of gas powered HD trucks because of the saving available in fuel costs. As I mentioned above, it is simple economics.

Bert

[JIMNLIN]

Your the one that brought up the HD gas will be as reliable as a diesel. The subject line is gas vs. diesel and will your 1500 tow 13350 lbs with 20000 GCWR as my Dodge will. This is a RV/tow vehicle forum. The Cummins diesel WILL out work any gas engine in a light duty truck and do it longer and cheaper . According to hot shoters at the truck stop gas can't compete in the towing world.......JIM

[BertP]

Bert
gas dump trucks that work for a living are a thing of the past!!

I didn't question that. I just said that there still are some around (and being built) and that is true. The problem I see is that people make a statement that the majority of HD trucks are diesel (which is true) and then infer from that that there is something special about diesels. Somehow, people got it in their heads that 350 diesel HP is the equivalent of 700 gasser HP. That is absolute hogwash. 350 HP is 350 HP regardless of what is developing it. Certainly, a 350 HP Cat C12 will last longer than a 350 HP souped up motorcycle engine, but while both are alive, they will be able to exactly the same amount of work.

It has been stated a few times on these forums that the fuel consumption issue is a wash because if you can't afford the fuel, you shouldn't be RVing. While there is some truth to that, the fact that diesels can get 30%+ better fuel economy than gassers is an important point. It won't make that big a difference to me as an individual on an annual basis, but if I own a company with a few hundred or thousand trucks, that 30%+ translates into millions of dollars per year in fuel costs over gassers. So, which engine do you think I would choose? It's a no brainer. Strictly economics.

Care to name a HD gasser in a pickup that can match the Cummins/Dodge fleet average of 350,000 mi before overhaul ?
JIM

I can't. But what has that to do with the subject line? The fact that the Cummins in a Dodge will last 350,000 miles before overhaul has nothing to do with the fact that it is a diesel and everything to do with the fact that it is a medium duty engine. If the Hemi was designed to the same specs, it would last just as long. But it would also suffer from the same ailment the Cummins has: weight. I have posted a few times that I almost bought a 2003 Dodge 2500 CTD QC Laramie 4X4 but, in spite of the fact that my 1500HD 6.0 gasser fully loaded could handle my 5er with about 600 - 700 lb to spare before GVW, the Dodge would have been a couple of hundred lb over its GVW when the 5er was empty. That's not knocking the CTD, just recognizing the fact that you would have to have a 3500 series Dodge before you could match the payload capability of my 1500HD gasser because of the CTD's weight. I don't doubt that there were probably some other things that added to the weight, but the CTD is quite heavy.

Bert

[JIMNLIN]

Bert
gas dump trucks that work for a living are a thing of the past!!
Care to name a HD gasser in a pickup that can match the Cummins/Dodge fleet average of 350,000 mi before overhaul ?
JIM

[BertP]

It's great that so many gas and diesel owners are happy. I just dropped off our large excavator after pulling it with our dump truck. To pull really large loads the only choices are diesel powered. Why is that? Why is it that all of our heavy equipment is diesel powered? Why aren't there any good gas powered pieces of heavy equipment? As many gas fans will be quick to point out, the diesles in our pickups aren't the same as what are in heavy trucks or equipment, but they certainly have similarities.

There are still trucks available with gas engines in them, so diesel is not the only type of engine available.

There is a real lack of logic at times when folks choose to knock the diesel pickup. If you're happy with gas, that is fantastic, if it works well for you and you are satisfied, that is great.

Unless you call criticizing them because of the stink and the mess caused by the fuel knocking them, I don't think I remember seeing anyone knock the diesels.

There are valid reasons why heavy trucks and heavy construction equipment are diesel powered, and there are no gas alternatives though. I have an equipment trailer setting in our yard with a 450 setting on it. If anyone has a gas powered rig that they think can move it, bring it on over and we'll let you hook up to it. Or maybe there is a gas powered, heavy duty truck that I'm not aware of? Tell me of a gas powered excavator that I can replace our 120 with.

Any gas powered heavy duty truck will pull that excavator all over the country. There are still many gas powered dump trucks and 5 & 10 ton delivery trucks around the country.

I applaud those that are happy with their gas trucks. Just please quit trying to use nonexistent logic to explain why a gas engine can outwork a diesel engine.

No non existant logic here, Jeff. With the exception of burning diesel fuel, there is nothing you can do with a diesel that you cannot do with an equivalent power gasoline engine. Yes, the diesel will get better fuel consumption numbers (the one and only reason most heavy duty vehicles in NA have diesels), but the performance will be exactly the same if they are geared properly. And a heavy duty gas engine will last just as long as a heavy duty diesel if used and maintained the same way. There is nothing magical about diesels.

Bert

[white_line_feve]

Easy decision for me. I put 161,000 miles on my dodge cummins, trouble free, and it was still running good. Took me and a 5er to 49 states and all of Canada but 1 province. So I got a new cummins diesel. My brother has a hemi and I get about double the milage he gets. Why would I even consider gas.

[BuckNaked]

I drive a gas rig.. 454 V8 and tows wonderfully. I would never knock a diesel though.. I get 2 kilometers per liter. Thats about 200-250 kilometers per tank. Gas is at about .85 cents average right now. Thats about 120-140 miles per tank I'd guess. (not too good with math) I would drive a diesel to get the mileage but I don't believe that the engine would like the daily 5 kilometer commute to work each day. Wouldn't ever warm up.

Every truck needs to fit the lifestyle of the owner.

[wadietz]

I have on order a 2005 Ford F350 CC 6.0 L longbed truck. I opted for the diesel for the better towing. Right now my needs do not require a diesel, but we want a 35 foot fifth wheel that this truck can handle easily.

[bluenote]

Added to that maybe they don't feel the added $5k plus for diesel option is warranted in their towing needs? Or is that beyond comprehension?

Are we misguided?

Maybe not misguided, but just misinformed.

With the Power Package option in a Chevy pickup, the Duramax diesel costs $3,360 more than the vortec 8100 with all other options being equal. That's certainly a far cry from the $5K to $6K figures that are so often used in these discussions. This is an easily checked fact and so being beyond comprehension isn't a concern. :W

[justJeff]

It's great that so many gas and diesel owners are happy. I just dropped off our large excavator after pulling it with our dump truck. To pull really large loads the only choices are diesel powered. Why is that? Why is it that all of our heavy equipment is diesel powered? Why aren't there any good gas powered pieces of heavy equipment? As many gas fans will be quick to point out, the diesles in our pickups aren't the same as what are in heavy trucks or equipment, but they certainly have similarities.

There is a real lack of logic at times when folks choose to knock the diesel pickup. If you're happy with gas, that is fantastic, if it works well for you and you are satisfied, that is great.

There are valid reasons why heavy trucks and heavy construction equipment are diesel powered, and there are no gas alternatives though. I have an equipment trailer setting in our yard with a 450 setting on it. If anyone has a gas powered rig that they think can move it, bring it on over and we'll let you hook up to it. Or maybe there is a gas powered, heavy duty truck that I'm not aware of? Tell me of a gas powered excavator that I can replace our 120 with.

I applaud those that are happy with their gas trucks. Just please quit trying to use nonexistent logic to explain why a gas engine can outwork a diesel engine.

[RVER]

I tow with a Duramax and it tows beautifully. I love it, it is quiter than the Ford or Dodge. I like the Allison tranny and its tow haul ability. The milage I get is 18 -21 on the highway without towing and 11.5 mph a 35 ft Sunnybrook fiver up and down the hills of Vermont, Maine and Massachusetts.
Best of luck with whatever you buy, the 3 big companies have their pros and cons each. Dodge is much less expensive for sure.

[justJeff]

Well said sack1. Of course it's possible for folks to love their gas rigs just like someone else loves their diesel. They both made good decisions, they plunked down their money on something that ended up meeting their needs and giving them an enjoyable experience.

[sack1]

PSD,

Your quip about not "getting it" sounds suspiciously like the Harley mantra of "If I had to explain it, you wouldn't.." Plays about the same for me.

Yes, yes, yes, we all know you love your diesel but isn't just possible that others love their gas rigs? Or that their gas rigs have all the power and then some that they require? Added to that maybe they don't feel the added $5k plus for diesel option is warranted in their towing needs? Or is that beyond comprehension?

Are we misguided?

[hypoxia]

Turbocharging. Only a diesel will give you power at altitude due to turbocharging. If you live in flatland it doesn't matter.

[macmic]

Mac's reason for the diesel was to have a lot more towing power and better fuel mileage. He wanted the Excursion because we can seat eight and have room for the wheelchairs in the back. That way we can take grandchildren with us on outings. He also wanted a truck that would be able to get to the hospital during bad weather, even when the ambulance can't.

We had a 2000 7.3 PSD which I thought was a little loud for my taste. We replaced that with a 2003 6.0 PSD after the tornado.(It was hard to find one around these parts. We even had the owner of a very large dealership looking for us.) It had a bigger towing rating, better fuel mileage @ 15.4 average and way better pick-up. Passing gear screams. Of course Mac will tell you that I drive it like a race car but don't you believe it. In a race car I'd be going a lot faster that 70. Mac had a little stoplight race with a different manufacturer's deisel and he looked like he must of had problems or something. Definately eatin' dust.

Grandmas like speed too. The very reason I don't have a V-Rod. I have no desire to be scooped into a bag............ just yet.

Mic