Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[BertP]

tjcocker - It sounds like you have a nice truck now. But, how much of the difference you feel towing with the new truck vs the old one is because it has a diesel engine and how much is because it is an F250 vs an F150? The F250 is a much more substantial vehicle than the F150 - that's not knocking the F150, just recognizing that the F250 is bigger and heavier than the F150 in almost every respect. Even if the two trucks had exactly the same engine and tranny, you would notice a big difference.

kenoncooch - What you say is true, but I spend a lot of time in the right lane on grades as well and I have a diesel. I know that there are many people who would have you believe that my 3500 CC Dually D/A will pull a 15,000 lb trailer up a 45* grade in OD at 75 mph. The truth is it won't. I have spent a fair amount of time in 4th and even 3rd going up long steep grades pulling my 10,000+ lb 5er. Also, the gassers rev at exactly the same rpm as the diesels at highway speed if they have a tranny with the same (or close) OD ratio behind them. The 1500HD I had with a 6.0l gasser revved at the same rpm as my DMax on the highway. Yes, a gasser will downshift earlier than a diesel, but that doesn't mean that a diesel won't downshift.

Bert

[kenoncooch]

Our 2003 F250 & 7.3 litre PowerStroke got 12mpg towing our fiver and 24mpg when not towing. We have an 05 6L now and will soon put it to the test.
When towing we were in overdrive 99% of the time. At 65mph the engine revved at 1900 rpm. Most folks I know with gas V8's or V10's run in 3rd gear at higher revs and are off to the right lane when pulling up grades. They all get at least 20% fewer mpg.
Early tests runs with the 05 F250 6L and 5 speed tranny feel good. Crisp shifts, good accelleration, less noise and we LOVE that integrated brake controller.

[hone_eagle]

Iam already burning ultra low sulfer fuel here in Canada (0.02%) in my 99 PSD no problems

[slpnot]

Not sure if this is quite on topic. I went 'round and 'round with the diesel/gas pros/cons before I purchased my TV (see signature). I decided on gas (even surprised myself) for the following reasons.

1. Having lived through the gasoline re-formulation event (remember that fiasco?) I have no desire to gamble on whether my diesel will perform on future sulfur-deficient fuels. No way would I want to be constantly replacing fuel pumps or injectors.

2. On the same note, gasoline has been tweaked about as far as it can be. The gas engine I buy today is engineered to run on fuel available in the US and Canada today and tomorrow.

3. The big block GM engine is a proven performer that will more than meet my needs. It is quiet and easily maintained. More than enough horsepower and torque to motivate a 10,000 lb. TT over any road.

4. Finally, The "employee" discount pricing was too good to pass up.

JMHO
slp

[tjcoker]

Just made the plunge last week and bought myself a 2006 F250 SD Crewcab long box with the 6.0L PSD. Upgraded from a 2005 F150 SC/SB 5.4L Triton. What a difference in towing my Prowler 270FQS weighing in at 7000 lbs. The truck seems to have so much more power and seems to control the trailer much better. The cost difference for the diesel engine might one day be offset by the mileage savings... but that has nothing to do with why I put out the $40k. It just makes me feel more at ease, especially with the wife and child traveling with me up to the local mountains.

Tim.

[DVREDC5]

I have owned numerous gas vehicles over the last 30 years from older 454 Chevy's, 440 Mopar's to 8.1L GM and V10 Excursions. Last year we bought our 04 6.0L Excursion diesel. I also am 44 and have been towing trailers small and large, open and enclosed up to 8,000 lbs in the summer and winter, flat land and mountains. As a result I have a pretty vast experience with gas engines and so far 19,000 on ouor diesel 6.0L Excursion.

Gas Pros:

Quiet.
Great high rpm power - good for passing at highway speeds.
Less expensive when purchasing.
Never an issue with how cold it is out in winter months.
Little smell from exhaust.
Can fuel up at any gas station and usually find regular grade as the lowest priced of all fuels.

Gas Cons:

Less torque but large motors much better than a few years ago.
Poor fuel economy, especially when towing heavy loads and trailers with lots of wind resistance. Typically single digit numbers even on the highway.
Poor fuel economy if driven around town frequently
Need higher RPM's for highway trailer towing so either no overdrive use or frequent hunting in and out of gears. Causes excessive transmission wear.
Lower resale value than diesel.

Diesel Pros:

Fantastic torque, great for towing large trailers and heavy loads.
Dramatically improved fuel economy versus gas vehicles. My results are 40% better in town driving & up to 60% better on the highway vs. gas big blocks!
100,000 mile warranty
Towing in overdrive at highway speeds never a problem, regardless of the weight or size of the trailer.
Higher resale value versus gas.
Our Excursion has an 800 plus mile range PER tank non-towing and around 500 when towing our camper. VERY nice...

Diesel Cons:

Noiser than gas motors - some almost as quiet as gas engines so that varies by brand. Not an issue at all if used mainly for highway driving. Can be a problem locally at a drive through with some - Fords seem to have the most noise at idle and low speeds.
Diesel fuel not sold at all stations.
Diesel often more expensive than regular grade gas.
May (not common) but may have starting or running problems if used in extremly cold climates (i.e. sub zero daily).
Not essential but they do like to have block heaters plugged in during winter months overnight.
Smell with windows up or while hooking up trailers. Never an issue on the highway or with AC on.

Now, for just a personal view. If you tow large and heavy loads nothing compares to a diesel, nothing. That's because of the high torque at very low rpm levels. The are also great for highway towing because of hardly any trans downshifting in winds or on hills. The fuel economy is fantastic.

Would I drive one daily around town? Yes. Will my wife? No. She hates the smell, noise and not being able to run the kids through the drive thru's. But, she LOVES it on the highway. If we never towed we would use gas. Even with the lesser mileage it's pretty even cost since they are less expensive to buy. IF you tow - go diesel!!!! You will NEVER go back.

[tgatch]

I just found an interesting article. Thought you guys might be interested in it.

Classic RV Comparison.

Not sure when it was written as it shows the Pickup prices at about $18,400 for gas and $22,000 for diesel. It is none the less an interesting thought out article.

Tom

[tjheller]

You want reality? 2001 Suburban 8.1, 2004 Thor Wander Wagon 217 WTB. It gets 6.5 mpg AT 55 mph. Any faster and who knows. In town the needle moves and you can watch it. On the Interstate(unloaded)I was shocked(and happy) when it got 14.7. In the mountains and passing stuff around 13. I would like to trade it for a diesel but it isn't worth anything and I owe more than it's worth. A car dealer offered me 12 grand a few months ago for it. With gas at almost $3, it'd probably be less. So, it sits in my shop hooked up to my camper. I have 2 small kids so it's hard to get away, but at 6.5 mpg I'm not sure I could afford to drive it far anyways. That's a little under $.50 a mile. From here a trip to Yellowstone and back would cost me over a grand for just gas.

[_G_]

Tom, I will try your suggestion and report back!

[tgatch]

G,

You are the ONLY person I have ever seen claim that kind of mileage towing that kind of size and weight. The only way you could be getting that kind of mileage is that you are not getting good consistant tank fulls. I know that if I let the kick off at the pump be my stopping point I would see wildly different mileages. When I started filling until I saw the fuel in the filler neck I got real numbers.

I thought this forum was to spread the word about experience's we have had while rv'ing.

You are right, but it is not good to spread flat misinformation. This is just not possible.

Tom

[_G_]

Hishdeer wrote:

"G" wrote:

tgatch wrote:

"G" wrote:

Hishdeer wrote:

ilovetocamp wrote:
Paying $1.55 a gallon for diesel and getting over 20mpg.

2004 Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel
2004 Challenger 32TKB 5th wheel with 3 slides.


You are NOT getting 20mpg pulling and 32 foot 5th wheel with 3 slides. I'm NOT buying it.

I would bet he is, depending on his driving!

I don't take sucker bets.

Nobody... and I mean NOBODY can get 20 MPG towing a 12'8" tall by 8' wide, 10,000+lbs 5er. I don't care what driving habits one has. The only way for that to even be remotely possible would be to be driving down hill ALL of the time.

If that Cummins is getting 20MPG towing that kind of size and weight, I'm trading my truck in TODAY!!!

You have till the end of the month for employee pricing on the new Dodge's. When I first picked up my new 3500 4X4 short bed I was only getting 17.5 mpg without the 5th wheel. I took it back to the dealer after 2500 miles and they did a "reflash" on the engine.I now average 26.5 mpg without the 5th and 20.5 with. This mileage is at 2200 rpms, about 70 miles an hour. I have had ford and gm diesels and was a little leary about buying the Dodge but I have to admit, this is the best truck I have ever towed with hands down. I cannot imagine what will happen when I install a chip. Keep you posted.

You don't know how to figure gas mileage. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. You can't get 20.5mpg going downhill with 60mph tailwind. There is no chip or a reflash made that will increase your mpg by what you claim. Get a new calculator and ask somebody to show you how to figure gas mileage and then have your odometer calibrated. Did Paul Bunyon do your mpg calculations?

miles driven / gallons used, pretty simple, I am not trying to argue with anyone, I am just telling the facts which I know are hard to accept. I have been towing for over 25 years and I can hardly believe it myself. I have no preferance for any OEM, I buy the best priced vehicle I can find when I am shopping for a truck. I like them all! I am only towing a 25ft 5th which weighs only 6700lbs dry. I thought this forum was to spread the word about experience's we have had while rv'ing. Sorry to have upset you!

[Camelot_Mike]

lakecitycamper wrote:
just bought 2005 f250 super duty 5.4 3.73 wanting to pull a 4000lb trailer to colorado two or three times a year anyone know if it will pull well through the mountains

People are getting carried away with themselves, your truck should pull a 4000lb trailer anywhere with no problem you don't need 1000 horsepower and a Kenworth for everything.
You'll do fine, then come back here and tell everyone how good your truck did.
Have a good time.

[CaseyD]

hey guys just had to jump in on this topic, i actually registered just to reply on this.:) I never hear anyone talk about long term maitanence, everyone talks about gas prices this and gas milage that, but what i want to know is how many people that drop the 48K for F250 cc w/ PSD actually keep them for 350K+? i know there are a few out there that have an old 7.3 pre turbo that have some crazy mileage on them but seriously if you keep that truck long enough to actually brag about how durable it is the cost to rebuild is more than a brand new crate gas motor. another point is that its not like we are comparing a peterbuilt to a PSD or CTD we are comparing light/medium duty diesels that are built on the exact same platforms as a v10 or hemi. The rearends are the same, the hubs are the same, the tires are the same, the interiors are the same, etc, etc. so when that diesel is sounding really good and strong at 350k the rest of the truck is falling apart just like a v10 or hemi at 350K. I wanted a diesel but just wasnt in my budget so i got a v10(8" lift with 38's, believe me im not braggin about gas mileage with that set up)it will pull what ever i want it to, and if i cant pull with my truck chances are i shouldnt be pulling it to begin with. its funny how everyones gas price differences are really close to comparable, in my town which is very truck heavy, even the 5 foot tall 90 pound blonde girl is driving f550 it seems, our gas isnt even comparable, at some stations Diesel is .40$ more than regular, i shouldnt say some, it is pretty much the common place, regular 2.79- 2.81 diesel 3.28- 3.30. and loaded gas mileage claims are out of this world for diesel haulers, i admit and have seen diesels get way better gas mileage than gassers but no where near the 20 mark. It just sucks that people come here for answers and opinions before that drop the huge cash for thier truck(what ever it be, gas or diesel) so here are a couple of fact comparisons:
my truck: 2003 f250 cc sb v10 4x4 8" lift 38" tires 4:30 gears= 9-10 city, 12-13 highway
Father in laws truck: 2001 f250 sc lb 4x2 stock tires 3.73 gears= 11- 12 city, 14- 15 highway
2002 Chevy 2500 cc sb 4x4 Duramax(white chevy in the cognito motorsports ad, known him since i was 11) 12" lift 40" tires 4.56 gears= 12- 14 city 15-16 highway. Now i know its not the same but you cant get me to believe that 40" tires have more drag than 12K pound 5th wheel going up hill. At 3 miles different per gallon and .40 different per gallon it makes it really hard to drop that extra 5k up front, 5K doesnt seem like much when people are saying they get 20+ gallon in their diesel compared to 10 a gallon in a gasser, but in real life the miles per gallon are alot closer than the faithfuls want you to believe. i havent heard much talk about how gas mileage and cost will be effected when they drop all the sulfer out of diesel in about 1.5- 2 years? no one talks about the adjustments that will be needed when your truck is only 3- 4 years old running like******on the new fuel. Ill say it again, if i had the money youre dang right i would have had a diesel because i like the way they sound and the torque they have. But we need both sides to let the truth come out for people that really need/want answers before their purchase.

Casey
2003 f250 cc sb 4x4 v10
8" Fabtech Lift
38" Parnelli Jones Dirt Grips

[PhillyRube]

muttjeff wrote:
had an 03 f-250 7.3 diesel, traded on a 04 f-350 v-10 gaser cried to my wife until last week and got an 05 chevy 3/4 ton 6.6 diesel. Needless to say im am no longer crying and very happy to be back in the power and mileage. if youve ever drove a v-10 you know why i was crying lol.

I can relate, after pulling our toy hauler to Sturgis and back...looking for a Cummins now.

[hone_eagle]

lakecitycamper wrote:
just bought 2005 f250 super duty 5.4 3.73 wanting to pull a 4000lb trailer to colorado two or three times a year anyone know if it will pull well through the mountains

I think you will have a lot of time to enjoy the view,you will make it ..just very slowly