Diesel vs gas......................

Sport45 wrote:

Good natured counter points:

And some good natured counter-counter points

Higher initial cost is recovered in about 60k on fuel savings, and at resale you will come out ahead.

Are you quite sure about that? Or did you maybe fudge the diesel mpg up and the gasoline mpg down? Do you come out ahead at resale if you buy another diesel? It seems to me that you only recoup that upfront cost if you don't buy a replacement vehicle. Or can you claim that credit if you replace the diesel with a gasser?


Well, I get 15-16 regularly with a 5,500lb camper on my truck. I believe you would be lucky to get 9-10 with a gas truck. 5 mpg difference at 60,000 miles makes about a 2,000 gallon difference. Forgetting that Diesel is less per gallon (usually) and figuring both at 3 bucks a gallon (low) that makes a $6,000 difference in price (less then cost of the diesel option)As far as resale value there is a huge difference between a diesel and gas motor, especially when both trucks are high mileage. 5-7k for a 6-7 year old Dodge with 100,000 miles looking at autotrader.

More oil changes? Dodge recommends every 15,000 miles, for severe use 7,500. I spend 50 bucks every 7,500 miles. Not bad in my book.

I change my oil, all six quarts of it, and filter for about $15 every 5000 miles. Even better in my (check)book. And I only change fuel and air filters, for another $20, once a year.

Good point. The difference in oil costs saves you about $300 in 100,000 miles.

No glow plugs, never had to replace an injector on my two diesels. My 94 had a starter solenoid go bad at 140k, but other than that just fluids, tires and brakes. New truck has incurred no extra costs in 30k.

I'm glad to hear your diesel has lasted 30,000 miles. Were you worried? My '92 F-150 302, as mentioned above went 233,000 miles with only 2 seals replaced. (And many, many oil changes....) Some last, some don't. But nobody can argue that the diesel is cheaper to fix if it doesn't.

By nature diesels are simpler engines than gas motors as they don't have an ignition system. Many Diesels go over 500k with no concernable engine service. This is why over the road trucks are primarily diesel.233k is excellent mileage for a gas motor, but nothing to brag about with a good diesel. Our company changed fleet vehicles from gas Fords to Diesel Fords and Chevy's about 7 years ago. The diesels have required far less service, and far less fuel bills. We have about 25 trucks. Granted a new gas truck very well could perform better then the ones we let go.

Newer diesels (at least our Dodge) start easily in cold temps. Started ours at 10 below w/o waiting for the heater grid light to go off.

I'm willing to call that a wash. My gas engine isn't ever hard to start in cold weather either. What's a heater grid? I just jump in and turn the key.

A heater grid helps warm the air prior to being inducted into the motor. Being able to start at -10 w/o using it shows just how far modern diesels have come to address cold starts. Dodge cold startThis is an older Dodge and the newer ones start better. Point being no difference between gas and diesel for a cold start.

Fuel gelling is easily fixed with additive when in extreme cold temps.

Can't comment here. Never added anything to my fuel or coolant to keep the engine working.

Me neither. It has never been cold enough. The colder areas have a different blend of diesel fuel which should take care of temperature. I personally would probably add an anti gel when it gets below -10 degrees.

Yes, the engines are heavier. This is to be expected in an engine designed for 2-5 times longer life span and making more TQ.

Is it heavier for a longer life span? Or is it heavier because the peak cylinder pressure is higher? Where on earth did the 5 times longer come from, anyway? Maybe we're fudging diesels up and gassers down again? Even if they lasted twice as long you could buy a whole new engine to replace the worn out gasser for the extra cost. And you wouldn't have to pay for it up front. That cost would be deferred at least 200,000 miles.

5 times is an extreme, but there are lots of diesels out there with over 500,000 miles on them and even some close to a million miles. Our gasser company trucks were retired at 100k due to high maintenance costs, our diesels are running well at over 200k when we sell them for appearance sake. (Construction trucks get used hard) My 94 had over 200k and drove like new when we sold it to get a dually.

To each their own. I have owned many gas vehicles and two diesel ones. Who knows, maybe one day I will drive a gasser again.

And some day I might have a diesel. I don't have anything against diesels and if it makes sense next time I'm in the market I'll buy one.

Like you I have nothing against a gas truck. It seems to me though looking for a new truck the diesel option not only pays for itself in the first 60k and actually costs less overall considering resale value, why not have the more powerful, more efficient, longer range and more reliable (based on my experience with our fleet trucks)rig?

Beauty is in the eye of the key holder.

Absolutely!!!

This post isn't meant to be a slam against you personally or diesels in general. I've always said that diesels have their place. And sometimes that place is under the hood of a privately owned pickup. They make perfect cents (sic) for the over the road truckers, because they are all about life cycle cost and making money. Very few of us, me included, put 75,000+ miles a year on a vehicle and accumulate fuel bills that dwarf the monthly truck payment. For them a couple mpg is HUGE. For me, it's really not that big of a deal. I had enough money for a diesel so I have money for gasoline. We, for the most part don't care if the vehicle will last 1,000,000 miles because we're not keeping them nearly that long anyway. We'll get tired of it and want something new, or we'll see the next year model has a 5-valve tri-turbo 1000 lb-ft engine that runs on bacon grease and we have to have it. Even here on RV.net when you look at the signatures you rarely see a tow vehicle that's more than five years old.


Your points are well taken and no one truck is right for everyone. There is no disrespect for anybody's truck or preference. Thanks for the interesting and thoughtful responses. It is a pleasure to debate with such a civil and courteous poster.


Cheers,
Greg

Happy travels!