Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[Hannibal]

No argument there. I've said all along diesel for the mountains. Never tried to make the small block gasser any more than what it is. And it IS what it is. No more or no less.

[Steakman]

So we're back to HP and tQ on Gassers vs diesels eh...verrrry interesting. LOl I thought this thread had died and gone to heaven..

Just as an FYI: I have a Banks 6Gun PDA for sale if anyone is interested.. 😄 Going with EFI LIve.

I drove a cpl of yrs in the BC Mountains, specifically South Eastern BC..Sparwood West. I can tell ya that a diesel, stock or other wise is what you want to have pulling any kind of hardwall trailer there. 35-40km 8%+ grades in 35-40C heat not to mention pretty high altitudes. And as for Rpm..1800-2000, EGTs in the 1100-1200's and literally blow by any 1/2 ton pullin I dont care what. The part I do like is simply this. I avg at 110 km/hr - 19.5mpg(US) (not towing of course), and thats on the cookie cutter 245's I use in winter..in summer on 265's it goes up to about 20 on my DIC and that is without adjusting my ECM for tire difference. I dont think there is a big block gasser with that kind of mileage built.

Give me an LBZ anyday of the week.!

cheers...C ya next yr.

stk

[Hannibal]

Jarlax,
The cab doesn't have to be removed to replace heads on the 5.4L. You're confused.
You got lucky. Some do, some don't. Just like the rare spark plug issue. Old news.
We all have fuel filters. Even Flying J has dispensed bad fuel on occasion.
Why would I even care about a 1200hp gasser. 310hp is more than plenty. I don't even use all of that.

[bimbert84]

dfranks wrote:

As for the HP/TQ differences in Gas and diesel they is a quantified difference. A gas engine relies on a spark where a diesel relies on heat which in its nature is much more efficient at creating power.

Sure, but the way in which the power is generated does not make it any stronger or weaker. I suspect you're falling victim to the same thing most people on this forum do: comparing peak numbers. If you want to compare peak numbers, compare torque at the wheels, not at the engine.

We all know a diesel produces more torque at the crankshaft, and that a gasser can run at higher RPMs. But what many don't realize is higher RPMs allow the gasser to take advantage of gear reduction in the transmission which multiplies torque at the wheels. Either way, the torque ends up at the wheels, and how much ends up there is ultimately a function of engine (horse)power, which is the combination of torque and RPM.

dfranks wrote:

I will do some home work to follow up on this. Check on some diesel websites and their dyno postings where typically the torque will be double the HP in diesel engines. Not so with gas engines no matter what their displacement.

Be sure to compare torque and power at the same RPM, not at their respective peaks. If you can show the HP=TQ*RPM/5252 relationship is invalid, you may be eligible for a Nobel Prize in Physics. 😉

-- Rob

[Jarlaxle]

Hannibal wrote:
Not my spark plugs. You just don't seem to read too well. Mine is a 2010. Broken plugs, contaminated diesel fuel, damage caused by tuners or aftermarket parts, alterations etc etc aren't covered by warranty. Done properly, changing spark plugs is rarely a problem. Done improperly, people have broken plugs in all kinds of vehicles. Same with injectors.
$10k for injectors is ludicrous alright. So is $3-5k for heads. One doesn't need to go to the dealership for either. Maybe you'll catch on.

The cost isn't the heads, it's the major surgery required. There isn't room to get the heads off without lifting the cab or pulling the engine. On a van, there's no option, the engine MUST come out, a monumental job.

The KDP is not mileage dependent. It backs out from vibration, not mileage. It can and has happened well below or above 100k miles. Nice wishful assumption though. Cummins and Dodge don't care about their reputation enough to look into a design flaw simply because it's out of warranty? That assumption is ludicrous.

Over 150K very hard miles on my engine in its first vehicle (a newspaper van)...the KDP never moved. And with the $45 tab installed, it won't. Of course, the KDP has been a non-issue for almost a decade.

How do you know you won't get a load of contaminated fuel or experience injector failure in the next 125k? Ya'll got a crystal ball at the house?

I don't fuel at fly-by-night stations, and I have this thing called a "fuel filter".

Gonna up the hp on a truck you'll no longer even have? $3k installed is for new nozzles, not new injectors.
Yes I realize diesels don't have spark plugs. Another ludicrous assumption on your part.
I read some of the comments on your link to some obscure website. The same kind of website where people whine about Durango wheels falling off. I changed the plugs in my Hemi powered Ram twice and recently in my FIL's Crown Vic. Both with aluminum heads and no trouble whatsoever. Same with my list of Harley's. If you're the kinda guy who can't change a spark plug without creating a major repair, you should probably let others do your vehicle maintenance.
Yes I like the new 6.4L too. But the simplicity, better mileage and longevity claim to fame for the diesels is all but dried up. Towing in O/D is their only lingering attraction. Not much more than an expensive novelty.:B

Show me a gasser capable of putting 1200HP & 2500lb/ft to the wheels on a stock 100,000+ mile bottom end, then running 4000+ street miles and managing 18MPG.

[Hannibal]

Actually it weighs in at around 1/4 ton. You really need to study up some. But I understand where you're coming from. V8's with aluminum heads are 1/2 ton and car engines.:B

[dfranks]

With a 1/2 ton engine in it!:B

[Hannibal]

Not at all. You give yourself way too much credit. You're of no consequence at all to me! What gasser rant? Mine runs perfect with no impending issues to worry about. That apparently bothers you, much to my amusement. One last hint... An F250 is a 3/4 ton.:B

[dfranks]

I think Hannibal is upset:M. That's ok I'll come back to straighten things up again when you go on a gasser rant.

Enjoy the 1/2 ton:E

[Hannibal]

Not my spark plugs. You just don't seem to read too well. Mine is a 2010. Broken plugs, contaminated diesel fuel, damage caused by tuners or aftermarket parts, alterations etc etc aren't covered by warranty. Done properly, changing spark plugs is rarely a problem. Done improperly, people have broken plugs in all kinds of vehicles. Same with injectors.
$10k for injectors is ludicrous alright. So is $3-5k for heads. One doesn't need to go to the dealership for either. Maybe you'll catch on.
The KDP is not mileage dependent. It backs out from vibration, not mileage. It can and has happened well below or above 100k miles. Nice wishful assumption though. Cummins and Dodge don't care about their reputation enough to look into a design flaw simply because it's out of warranty? That assumption is ludicrous.
How do you know you won't get a load of contaminated fuel or experience injector failure in the next 125k? Ya'll got a crystal ball at the house? Gonna up the hp on a truck you'll no longer even have? $3k installed is for new nozzles, not new injectors.
Yes I realize diesels don't have spark plugs. Another ludicrous assumption on your part.
I read some of the comments on your link to some obscure website. The same kind of website where people whine about Durango wheels falling off. I changed the plugs in my Hemi powered Ram twice and recently in my FIL's Crown Vic. Both with aluminum heads and no trouble whatsoever. Same with my list of Harley's. If you're the kinda guy who can't change a spark plug without creating a major repair, you should probably let others do your vehicle maintenance.
Yes I like the new 6.4L too. But the simplicity, better mileage and longevity claim to fame for the diesels is all but dried up. Towing in O/D is their only lingering attraction. Not much more than an expensive novelty.:B

[dfranks]

Please go read some of the broken plug comments on my original link.
$3000, $5500. for new heads! and they are the same junk that came off. SO no fix for the problem. Alluminum heads and steel spark plugs, makes for a tough time for removal as well ( see hydro locked iff too much lube is used). The heads should come sleeved from Ford.
I do like their 6.4 though, over 500HP to the wheels with a tuner only!

[dfranks]

I have included a link to the TSB for removing your sparkplugs, as well as the tool that is needed to remove the broken plug. This isn't covered under warranty BTW.
If I am not mistaken the KDP was, depending on mileage of course, some of these were well over 100k before they let loose. Hence the reason why they were not covered under warranty or took so long to acknowledge the problem.

10,000 for set of injectors is ludicrous, I am on my stock set at 75k and with good fuel and maintenance I Won't need a set for at least another 100 to 200k. As for the price I will be getting a set of aftermarket injectors which I will net me 50-100 more HP at the wheels as well as improving my mileage over stock. You can't say the same. BTW I would be looking at around $3000 installed. I most likely won't have to worry about it as I will probably buy another truck by then.

In all that time I won't have to change a spark plug, You do know diesels don't have spark plugs don't you?
:S


http://www.ford-trucks.com/tsb/fulltext/show_article.php?tsb=06-5-9

[Hannibal]

Digging for dirt in obscure website forums results in incomplete information. The TSB you refer to is for the '05-08 Triton engines and refers to proper spark plug removal that could apply to any spark engine. It has nothing to do with spark plugs that occasionally blew out on previous models.
http://www.dslreports.com/r0/download/1455834~b715e5c331a16b8f9799c2c716d9b7e4/Ford_TSB-0819.pdf

[Hannibal]

How long did it take Cummins to fix the KDP problem?
http://www.tstproducts.com/browseproducts/Dowel-Pin-Repair-Kit-for-89-93-or-99-02.html

Even though the short threaded spark plug issue doesn't affect my truck yet you seem to keep going on about it, I'd rather take the chance of a blown plug repair than chance the KDP catastrophic engine failure which doesn't affect your truck. Have you priced a new or reman B5.9 Cummins long block lately? The all too common VP44 injection pump failure followed in the ISB until '03 when Dodge still hadn't moved the lift pump to the tank where it should have been to start with resulting in some fuel starved CP3 injection pumps. A new VP44 or CP3 is quite a bit of pocket change as well. On the '07.5 and up 6.7L ISBe, a set of injectors from the dealership is over $10,000. I'll suffer a downshift on the uphills thank you.:B

[dfranks]

I believe the Ford spark plug was fixed in mid 07, after 10+ years of complaints
Some of the repairs went above $3000.
The problem was replaced with plugs "breaking off" causing an epidemic of complaints apparently this is being adressed with a TSB and special tool.

http://www.topix.net/forum/autos/ford-f-150/TR7HFU0VD0N2U9KPD