Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[dfranks]

Hannibal is a pro at misdirecting, if he has any sort of educational challenge from others. His arguement will go in complete circles so that he may completely avoid "solving the issue/post that was started"

Kind of like a divorce lawyer:)

As for the HP/TQ differences in Gas and diesel they is a quantified difference. A gas engine relies on a spark where a diesel relies on heat which in its nature is much more efficient at creating power.

I will do some home work to follow up on this. Check on some diesel websites and their dyno postings where typically the torque will be double the HP in diesel engines. Not so with gas engines no matter what their displacement.

[Hannibal]

That is if you do the work yourself "before" the dowel pin comes out and reeks havoc. If you wait until it comes out, better get your check book out. If you can't repair the damage yourself, you're in for a real shock. Properly torqued spark plugs cost nothing. If you can't perform such a simple task properly, you probably don't stand a chance at putting a keeper on the dowel pin in a 12v Cummins.

[Jarlaxle]

KDP is a $45 fix. Blown plugs...not so much.

[Hannibal]

dfranks wrote:

Hannibal wrote:
You just watch out for that killer dowel pin and I'll keep an eye on my spark plugs.:B

KDP AKA- Killer dowel pin was on 94-2000 12V engines only.

Get it right! My year has the crappy TC. Ford says don't go over 5000rpm.

Hey you catch on pretty quick!!! Past problems that have been corrected in current production don't apply. That includes the short threaded spark plugs of years past Ford modular engines.
And for even more education, the 12v ended in '97. Jan '98 was the beginning of the 24v that had the occasional broken rocker. I bought a '98 with a '97 tagged 12v engine.
Why would I want to exceed 5000rpm anyhow? 3rd gear at 70mph is 4450rpm. More than plenty fast or too fast for climbing the grades. You seem to have no valid argument.:B

[bimbert84]

dfranks wrote:

-1hp= 2 lbs of torque for a diesel
Gas engines are around 1hp= .30-.50lbs of torque.

Ummm, no, the laws of physics do not apply differently to diesel engines than to gas engines. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower#Relationship_with_torque.

HP = (TQ * RPM) / 5252

Solving for TQ, we get:

TQ = (HP * 5252) / RPM

Notice there is no mention of diesel or gas in either equation.

dfranks wrote:

I have never gone above 2400rpm to maintain the speed limit in the Rocky mountains towing my TT, Because I have never needed too.

Correct. That's because diesels put out more HP at lower RPMs. Gassers put out more HP at higher RPMs. Neither is more or less real than the other.

-- Rob

[dfranks]

Hannibal wrote:
You just watch out for that killer dowel pin and I'll keep an eye on my spark plugs.:B

KDP AKA- Killer dowel pin was on 94-2000 12V engines only.

Get it right! My year has the crappy TC. Ford says don't go over 5000rpm.

[Hannibal]

You just watch out for that killer dowel pin and I'll keep an eye on my spark plugs.:B

[dfranks]

Hannibal wrote:
I've owned four Cummins Rams Dave. They don't run at less than half the speed of a comparable gasser under the same conditions. More like about 30% lower. The 5.4L Triton have proven itself to be good for the life of most vehicles it's put in. RPM is not a problem for it. 4200rpm up the steep ones is almost 3k rpm below it's self destruction rpm. 2900rpm with the little Cummins is a mere 1300rpm below it's self destruction rpm. You're running closer to catastrophe up the grades than I am if you're not afraid to use the HP you paid for. Put a load behind that Cummins and you'll be reaching for some HP if you want to maintain 65-70mph up the hills. That or put a real Cummins in your pickup so you can lumber along at 1100rpm towing 50k lbs.:B

Hannibal some facts for you too consider,

-diesel engines are designed to run at 80% max rpm 24/7.
-1hp= 2 lbs of torque for a diesel
-Cummins I-6 has 40% less moving parts than a v-8 =longer life
-Diesel are designed for torque, efficencey and long life, hence the higher price tag over gas.
-Diesel powered trucks aren't mandatory to pull our TT,and 5ver's they just do it better, and longer that's why we buy them.

The three valve 5.4L has a real problem of blowing the spark plugs out the heads under higher rpm applications.
Fords answer to the problem is "lower the RPM" while driving, so much for your theory! Why they dumped the 5.0 and 351 I'll never know.

Gas engines are around 1hp= .30-.50lbs of torque.

My diesel redline is 3500rpm, and I have never gone above 2400rpm to maintain the speed limit in the Rocky mountains towing my TT, Because I have never needed too

Keep you gasser and stay in your glass bubble.
:R
Bash away on my little diesel;) I'll still leave your tiny gasser revving out and blowing plugs

[Hannibal]

Sorry I went over your head. Using the numbers you're posting. It's all simple math that plays out quite accurately on the road. As long as you're happy too, that's all that should matter.:B

[mgratner]

I guess you make up numbers as you go since you don't have a clue.

Cigar Mike

[Hannibal]

If you say so chief. 600ft/lbs of advertised torque through O/D reduces all that torque to 414 ft/lbs of torque to the drive shaft. That's not a whole lot more than the newer small block gassers are putting out through direct drive. You're not fooling me. Anyone who knows anything about horsepower requirements knows you're not pulling 19k lbs up a 12% grade 58mph at 2000rpm for a mere 228hp. It ain't happening. My thinks you exaggerate a lot. I've been towing long enough to know better.

[mgratner]

Hannibal,
Just for the record my 29CK has a sticker on the side listing the GVW as 11,865 and being a fulltimer it weighs, per scales 11,655. We have towed it allover the east including some 2 lane 12 percent grades. For someone who claims to have owned several diesels you don't seem to understand the fact that my CTD has 325 hp and 600 pounds of tourque. The tourque is 600 pounds at 1600RPM. I don't exagerate.

You sir, are either mistaken in your thoghts or seriously lack knowledge about pulling RVs.

Cigar Mike

[lanerd]

Bradandlyn wrote:
I am looking to transition to RVing for a family past time. Details:

1. 8000 pound loaded trailer weight
2. 400-500 pounds of people and gear in truck

Looking at new F-150 with max tow package and 3.73 rear end that can pull 11,000 pounds. Though it is rated to pull the load, will it have enough power to comfortably pull the trailer on hilly highways w/o down shifting too much. Or should I consider an equivalently priced F-250 type vehicle with a diesel engine?

The "tow capacity" is not this issue that you should be considering. The payload capacity of your 150 is the real problem. An 8000 lb trailer will have a tongue weight of at least 1000 lbs, maybe more like 1200 lbs. Add the 400-500 lbs of passengers and equipment and you are really pushing the envelope and probably beyond its rated rear axle weight rating and maybe even its GVWR. If you have the opportunity to go with a 250 diesel, you shouldn't even be thinking twice about it.

Tow capacities are a "selling" point for all five of the major 1/2 ton pickup manufactures and really have nothing to do with the truck's capabilities. The mfg's tow capacities are based on a flat bed trailer that has four wheels, one at each corner and the weight evenly distributed to the four wheels and with little or no tongue weight. Will it pull that 11,000 lbs flat bed trailer...you betcha! But when you attach the same weight TT or 5er, then the tongue/pin weight comes into play and destroys that advertised tow rating.

Ron

[Hannibal]

I'm glad you're happy too! Maybe it'll spread... That must be some very long grades! Out east, we climb grades in a matter of minutes. NADA lists your 29CK Cruiser at 7646 lbs. Me thinks you exaggerate just a little. That and I'm not sure what you consider a grade. 2% is a grade. 18% is also a grade. My logic makes perfectly good sense. It will take whatever rpm it needs to produce the necessary hp to pull whatever your actual weight and wind resistance is up the grade. That's a fact! :B

[mgratner]

Hannibal,

Your logic makes no sense. We run grades at 58MPH at 2kRPM. all day long, which is our normal cruising speed, flat or hills pulling as almost 12k 5er. 65 to 70 is just not comfortable pulling 12k with 15" trailer wheels. Just my experience from 5 years of fulltiming and almost 90K miles. No strain, no sweat.

Cigar Mike