Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[8_1_Van]

Here in NJ gas is as low as $1.49 but Flying J is $1.619 for gas and $2.719 for diesel. BTW I use my mountain bike every day for local use and the last time I purchased gas in my van was in PA a few weeks ago coming back from North Myrtle Beach. I am glad I don't use diesel anymore since it's 70% more than reg unl gas now.

[TennesseeBob]

You drive from NJ to MO to get gas:?

[bluenote]

We got a great deal on bottled water at the local pharmacy the other day. It didn't make our tow vehicle run worth a darn though!

[Jarlaxle]

You get gas for $1.09/gaollon?

[8_1_Van]

Gas is now cheaper than bottled water.:B

[Ace_]

I think a loss of power occurs more at altitude than anything else. Proper gearing though, and towing in the right rpm range for what the engine was designed seems to keep my truck from pinging/knocking. I use 87 octane only and have never had a problem with pinging/knocking. My current truck has the 3-valve V10 with increase hp and torque over the earlier models, so it might depend on the year of truck, I don't know.

[Devo_the_dog]

Madhatter1 wrote:
Ace, you make more sense than others on this thread, Sorry if I took you as Pro gas only. I have a question since you seem to have experience in many configs. If you haul a heavy load with a newer gas engine can you use 87 like others say? If you do can you feel any loss in power as the engine prevents knocking. I am used to running 89 or higher hauling but I have not owned a gas engine since 96. Trying to clear up my own misconception if I have one. When figuring out $ per mile the grade of gas needed will make a difference. Which grade would be the one to use for hauling? Curious, but still gonna stick with my diesel.

I recently got back from a 5000+ mile road trip pulling a 37'5th wheel. Our truck is a 03 F250 with a V10, auto, 2WD and 3.73 gears (king ranch short bed now with 97k miles). The trailer, when loaded, is light and only was only about 9600 lb at it's heaviest on this trip. I almost installed 4.30's the week before we left but decided to save the money and find out how well it towed.

I drove almost exclusively with OD off. Realistically, I could have driven many areas with it on but didn't. Mileage was directly proportional to the speed - for every 1 mph increase in speed, the mpg dropped 1/10. The only time I tried to get good mileage was between Northern California and the border of Utah/Wyoming. At 58 mph, I got 9.5 mpg. After that, I just started driving a little faster and the drop in fuel mileage was linear. I also didn't try to over work the engine or tranny so if I hit a grade, I'd wouldn't bury the throttle. I'd lift to prevent it from downshifting and winding out the V10. Sooner or later, it would slow down and I'd have to shift into 2nd and just hold the rpms at 3000, unless the grade decreased. If it did and I could increase the speed, I'd upshift and give it a little gas. The result was that I climbed hills slower than some of the other trucks. Big deal - I wasn't driving 70 mph to begin with. The fastest I ended up setting the cruise control was about 63 mph although I would increase my speed to 65+ prior to hitting a hill, as long as there wasn't any traffic around that I'd impede by speeding up and then slowing down.

The only time I had great hill climbing performance was on 80 driving towards Laramie. We hadn't yet hit the grade going up over the pass but the elevation wasn't too high and the temps were low, 17 degrees (it hit 3 degrees that night while we were sleeping). That was one of the few times that the low temps really added noticeable power. I was able to stay on the throttle without any sudden downshifts and the truck pulled up the hill at 63 without any problems. I did this up until the warning lights that slowed us down to 40 mph (bad weather). Coming down the grade was a bit bizarre though. I had to stay on the gas just to go 50 to 55 and the only explanation I have been able to come up with was the low temps and how it must have affected the tire pressures, along with tightening up some of the lubricants on all the rotating assemblies. Coming down a hill without a headwind and having to stay on the gas instead of watching your speed and lightly using the brakes was odd. I actually pulled over and checked everything because it was so unusual.

I also tried different grades of fuel. What I found surprising was that my fuel mileage dropped noticeably when using premium (91 or 93). The mpg was best with 87 or 89 but I only put in 87 if the day's was going to be relatively flat. I didn't use 85 octane and was surprised that you could buy it.

Eisenhower Pass (and one other that I can't remember) slowed the truck down the most. The last mile or so was at 28 mph. I had the throttle buried and if I had 4.30's, I probably could have gone a little faster but not enough to make a difference at the end of the day. What I did notice was that the transmission probably has some kind of electronic protection. On three separate occasions, the engine would be pulling strong in 2nd gear (steep grade) and running at 2800 rpm. Even though there was no rise in temperature (engine, transmission, water and/or oil), for no reason, it felt as if the converter would lock up, the rpms would immediately drop to 2200 and the truck's speed would fall off quickly. I'm positive this had something was to do with the computer.

Am I all for just gassers? No but I will admit that I was pleasantly surprised how well this one performed. Honestly, I didn't think it was going to perform that well with the 3.73's. But it performed well, especially considering it's mileage. I would have preferred being able to drive a little further on a tank but there's not much I can do to improve it (unless, I get a different truck).

This truck works fine and I have no reason to get a new one. It'll be paid for in a few months and still runs great. Does that mean I wouldn't get a diesel? No. My wife and I have been casually looking at used trucks and if we bought one in the next year or two, it would probably be a diesel. But, if we replaced the one we have, it wouldn't be purely based on the engine. It would be nice to have one with a newer transmission (dorkshift), a higher GVWR and a long bed (she originally bought the truck for herself - I inherited it when I bought her a new "truck"). The used price of the diesels are currently low enough to make them attractive. One benefit if we had one would be fewer gas stops, I'd probably drive faster and average a higher speed. Subsequently, the driving time (point A to B) would decrease or I'd cover more ground in one day just to get to our climbing locations (mountain climbing with our hands and feet). Would the added speed be measurable over a few miles. No. Over a few days, yes but still not enough to argue about it. I could care less if someone can pass me up a hill and if they cross over it a few seconds or minutes ahead of me, let them. Some people have different priorities. My wife has a great figure and cooks awesome chocolate chip cookies. Others like to brag about how fast they can drive a truck and trailer up a hill.

Just like many other over-hyped issues on the internet, I bet if I owned a truck with a diesel, there would be benefits, but the would probably be enough downsides for me to say "what's the big deal - in the big picture, it's not much different". It's still just a truck.

[Madhatter1]

Ace, you make more sense than others on this thread, Sorry if I took you as Pro gas only. I have a question since you seem to have experience in many configs. If you haul a heavy load with a newer gas engine can you use 87 like others say? If you do can you feel any loss in power as the engine prevents knocking. I am used to running 89 or higher hauling but I have not owned a gas engine since 96. Trying to clear up my own misconception if I have one. When figuring out $ per mile the grade of gas needed will make a difference. Which grade would be the one to use for hauling? Curious, but still gonna stick with my diesel.

[bluenote]

Sorry Ace,

You must have been in a different store, because no one else was willing to get between these two. The store I was at had a guy in a big red van out front taking pictures of prices at the nearby gas stations.

[Ace_]

Yeah, and I said get which one's on sale, or you think taste's best and they both jumped down my throat. 😉

[bluenote]

You guys should have seen the big doings at the grocery store yesterday. One lady was insisting whole milk was superior to other grades and another was vehement half percent was just as good. They called each other names and argued endlessly, neither one willing to give an inch. They even tried to show each other health magazine articles touting the benefits of each.

I personally grabbed a gallon of 2%, since that's what was on sale.

[Ace_]

I know it's your last comment on the subject, but I've linked the article here
Shootout. You can then read through each subsequent portion of the shootout, to include 3/4, 1-ton, squat test, 1/4 mile "drags", 1/4 mile 7% grade, and 1/8 mile 15% grades, unloaded and loaded with 10,500 lbs. I don't expect or need a response.

You can read it if you'd like, or not, it's just for your information (I'm not promoting one truck or the other, the article, or the website from which it came, only providing a link for you to either read or not, please do not judge me or the truck I drive for providing this link). I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, but because it appeared you commented on the article without reading it, I thought I should share it. Also, just to comment on your post about rpm, it's supposed to be different between gas and diesel trucks, due to the design of the engine, to expect otherwise is ignorance. One should be pulling around 2k rpm and the other should be pulling in the 4k range (the V10 pulls best in the 4k range), but it's due to the design of the engine, not whether one is better or not because it pulls in a lower rpm. So, no one with a gas engine "should try that" with a V10. It makes no sense, like saying, you should try pulling your load at 5200rpm with your diesel, it just plain makes no sense, because it's not how the diesel was designed (you probably have a rev-limiter that keeps the diesel from even going to an rpm such as where the V10 revs, doesn't mean it isn't a good truck though). If people were to base their decision(s) on something like that we could dismiss the diesel as viable because it tops out way earlier than the V10, again, just makes no sense to talk like that, it's ignorant of the design of the engines.

Enjoy your diesel, and I'll enjoy my truck(s), whether they have an engine of any design, or not. I hope, if you read the article, that you take something positive away from it. Also, if you want to hook your trailer up to my truck and buy some gas you can. It may be enlightening, but maybe it wouldn't.

Edited to add: I'm sorry I don't have a 5th wheel hitch (forgot your's was a 5th wheel), so I guess you can drive my truck with a rented trailer if you'd like. Also, I saw you posted this, "You can't haul an 11,000 lb. 5th wheel, without being overweight, with a gasser. Torque is power and torque costs money. Comparing a diesel to a gasser is like comparing a piper cub to a 747." Just as an FYI, a 2005 SRW F250 4x4 gas truck is rated to haul a 16,000 5th wheel, the same diesel is rated to pull a 15,800lb 5th wheel (the gas F350 has a 16,500 rating, diesel still 15,800). So, I'm not sure what you meant about the 11k pound 5th wheel making a gas truck overweight...or were you talking about a particular brand (Chevy, Dodge?)? Also, a gas truck will "typically" have a higher payload than a diesel truck due to the extra weight of the engine over a similarly equipped gas truck (this is based on Ford trucks, so your Dodge may be different).

[mgratner]

Ace, I have been pulling an 11,000 pound 5th wheel, over all kinds of roads for the last 4 years of full time RVing. I couldn't find the article you are refering to so I'll reserve comment on its content except to say it wasn't going uphill pulling 11,000 pounds. I drive a Dodge which has 325HP and 600 ft. pounds of tourque and a 4.10 rear. The torque reaches 600 pounds at 1600 RPM. Try that with your V10. By the way in flat country we get 14MPG at 58MPH which is accomplished at 1725 RPM. I bet your V10 pulling 11,00 pounds with a 4.30 rear can't get 8MPG. By the way how much HP is left on that V10 at 5,000 ft., not much I bet. Enjoy your V10, I'll stick with my diesel. This will be my last comment on this subject.


Cigar Mike

[Ace_]

Well, I can understand the "go fast" tri-maran, especially compared to the around the world Westsnail, but they both have their place...kind of like a certain gas and diesel thread. By the way, does the BMW-Oracle have a gas or diesel engine 🙂

[blt2ski]

Ace,

You had me feeling pretty good about you, then you have to mention Westsnail sailboat. I'd prefer to discuss open 40's if you talking 40' boats. Now them hummers, can move! An open 60 or 70 would be even more fun of a ride, or that new tri that BMW-Oracle built just north of me in Anacortes. So please keep on track of the action........ok........really do not want to chastise folks.....but hey..........back to my boat to finish up installing some line adjustable genoa carrs!

marty