librty02 wrote:
This is all the same blah blah blidddy blah blah that was said 10 years ago that the little V6 couldn't either...there was no way...it's not possible...it's gonna blow up...
wellllll that V6 has been doing what all the blah blah blidddy blah blah naysayers said it couldn't possibly do for 9 years now and has been the biggest seller for those past 9 years also...
We'll See wrote:
Because the automakers don't want to stop making $9,000 more on the diesel option...
JRscooby wrote:
Where is it written that gas engines must be V whatever? What would happen if they put modern fuel and spark control, and a turbo on a 5 L I 6?
librty02 wrote:
Yes as I didn't state a V6. It would have to be a boosted V8 as the heavy duty trucks are just that...heavier...and that would absolutely kill the diesel sales as it would most likely get close to the same mpg's as the diesel also. I beat the socks off my 11 eco with 130k on the clock with over 60k towing on it now always getting at least 10mpg with at least 7k behind it without one single issue other than the back slider glass going bad but that's not an engine issue. Now the 18 gets 19 mpg in the city not towing and 10.5 towing.
So I stick behind what I said above because IF a boosted gas engine was avail for the heavy duty trucks it would kill the heavy duty diesel sales and the 1/2 ton sales at the same time.
JRscooby wrote:ShinerBock wrote:JRscooby wrote:
Where is it written that gas engines must be V whatever? What would happen if they put modern fuel and spark control, and a turbo on a 5 L I 6?
They probably don't do it because of the cost associated with re-engineering a whole new motor/supporting systems and completely re-tooling the factories. It is much easier and more cost effect to re-scale and take away cylinders for various displacement sizes of a certain block configuration versus having two block configurations.
Cost associated with re-engineering a whole new motor/supporting systems and completely re-tooling the factories? IMHO, they did that.
Had a engine that was pretty cheap to run, and real dependable back when using points and carb. Instead of putting Fuel Injection on that when needed to clean the exhaust everything had to go V. Ford put throttle body on the 302 V8, and made big improvement in power and economy. Why not the 300 inch 6? If they had, then would not take much to add the turbo
mich800 wrote:ShinerBock wrote:Groover wrote:
"Most modern diesels with VG turbos have very little lag. I would compare the turbo lag of my stock turbo on and stock tune my Cummins to the turbos on my old Ecoboost. With a tune, the turbo lag on my Cummins wasn't even noticeable."
The diesel that I drive the most is a 6.7 Cummins but it is in a motorhome on a 2013 Freightliner chassis and is detuned to only produce 300hp and 660lb-ft. Maybe it doesn't represent what is sold in pickup trucks. But, the 2019 F250 that I rented a few months ago had very noticeable turbo lag that even showed up in the acceleration charts that I shared. If traction wasn't an issue the Ecoboost handily beat the Powerstroke off the line.
On the Kubota tractor it is kind of hard to tell what the turbo is doing.
Ford changed the turbo on the Powerstroke in 2015 to a larger one than the previous 2011-2014 turbo. This was needed to create the 440 hp numbers, but at the expense of low end response which many who traded up from the smaller turbo version complained about.
There is no doubt that Cummins can slap a larger turbo on the Cummins with its new CP4 and make huge power, but it will loose low end response of the turbo which and will have more of an effect on lag at altitude. As I said before, it is all a give and take with turbos and it depends what the manufacturer(or owner if you are going aftermarket) wants out of their engine. For some, big horsepower is their goal, while others go for better driveability.
As far as the lower power rated Cummins in the Freightliner, that is probably due to vehicles weight as well as tuning. Generally, with the same turbo, a lower power tune with less fueling will spool slower than a higher power tune. The weight probably exacerbates the issue.
That is true. But I would bet if you really dug into it. You would find much of the turbo lag found on today's vg turbos is built in intentionally via tuning for emissions.
ShinerBock wrote:Groover wrote:
"Most modern diesels with VG turbos have very little lag. I would compare the turbo lag of my stock turbo on and stock tune my Cummins to the turbos on my old Ecoboost. With a tune, the turbo lag on my Cummins wasn't even noticeable."
The diesel that I drive the most is a 6.7 Cummins but it is in a motorhome on a 2013 Freightliner chassis and is detuned to only produce 300hp and 660lb-ft. Maybe it doesn't represent what is sold in pickup trucks. But, the 2019 F250 that I rented a few months ago had very noticeable turbo lag that even showed up in the acceleration charts that I shared. If traction wasn't an issue the Ecoboost handily beat the Powerstroke off the line.
On the Kubota tractor it is kind of hard to tell what the turbo is doing.
Ford changed the turbo on the Powerstroke in 2015 to a larger one than the previous 2011-2014 turbo. This was needed to create the 440 hp numbers, but at the expense of low end response which many who traded up from the smaller turbo version complained about.
There is no doubt that Cummins can slap a larger turbo on the Cummins with its new CP4 and make huge power, but it will loose low end response of the turbo which and will have more of an effect on lag at altitude. As I said before, it is all a give and take with turbos and it depends what the manufacturer(or owner if you are going aftermarket) wants out of their engine. For some, big horsepower is their goal, while others go for better driveability.
As far as the lower power rated Cummins in the Freightliner, that is probably due to vehicles weight as well as tuning. Generally, with the same turbo, a lower power tune with less fueling will spool slower than a higher power tune. The weight probably exacerbates the issue.
Groover wrote:
"Most modern diesels with VG turbos have very little lag. I would compare the turbo lag of my stock turbo on and stock tune my Cummins to the turbos on my old Ecoboost. With a tune, the turbo lag on my Cummins wasn't even noticeable."
The diesel that I drive the most is a 6.7 Cummins but it is in a motorhome on a 2013 Freightliner chassis and is detuned to only produce 300hp and 660lb-ft. Maybe it doesn't represent what is sold in pickup trucks. But, the 2019 F250 that I rented a few months ago had very noticeable turbo lag that even showed up in the acceleration charts that I shared. If traction wasn't an issue the Ecoboost handily beat the Powerstroke off the line.
On the Kubota tractor it is kind of hard to tell what the turbo is doing.
Lynnmor wrote:
It would be interesting to know where that blue chart above came from. Is it a Raptor truck? Are they running high octane fuel?
