Electrical System Question after Fire in RV Park 2016 Zinger

Yes your trailer insurance should be your primary contact. They will pay for the repairs including what you have already spent. If the campground is at all liable your insurance company will collect. That is what they do so let them do their job.

+1 for getting an EMS with power protection. Loss of use is usually not covered.

I was also wondering the mfg. could have possibly put a 30amp breaker where a 50amp should be. *Most* zinger models don't have 50amp service, and this same model is made in a 30amp version also but obviously without the 2nd AC.

Bumpyroad wrote:
the 30 and 50 amp statements here seem to me to indicate a possibility of mfr. error?

Doubtful ... I suspect quite a bit of this confusion is on the part of the OP. First, 50 amp service which he claims his particular trailer has is a Zinger option that includes 2nd A/C prep according to this Zinger Features Page. Since the OP previously referred to his trailer as having a "huge 50 amp cord" and that he's is using a 30 amp > 50 amp dogbone so he can plug into the campsite 30 amp service that would suggest his particular trailer is indeed wired with 50 amp main service, the question being whether he understands that 50 amp RV service is really 100 amps - i.e. 50 amps across each of two legs. Plugged into 30 amp campsite service using a dogbone, both sides of that 50 amp service at the trailer end would normally be powered. Considering he's lost most of his 120 vac except the microwave oven that in turn would suggest that one side of his incoming 50 amp service wiring is dead while the other leg is still hot. That would explain why the microwave still functions but no other 120 vac devices do. If the converter itself is on the dead side of those two incoming legs that would also explain why it's not functioning either. It's difficult to tell for sure without actually being there to analyze but my suspicion is that just one side of his 50 amp incoming service has a problem and the converter itself may be fine ... maybe. The solution is to have a qualified tech take a look rather than rely on wild guesses from all of us who aren't there to actually look at the situation.

the 30 and 50 amp statements here seem to me to indicate a possibility of mfr. error?
bumpy

Oh and the 30 amp breaker that says "cord".... Is inside my converter box. Trailer is 50 amp with the huge 50 amp cord but the cord breaker in the converter box says 30amp.... That's the one that was sparking and buzzing, I had to hit it with a rubber shoe to turn it off. When I saw it I just figured some idiot at the factory probably put a 30amp in where the 50amp breaker should of been. Does that sound about right? Probably doesn't matter as that is being fixed by the mobile repair guy on Wednesday when he installs new converter box

On the "pedestal" there is no breaker to cut it off. The "pedestal" is a piece of a landscape timber stuck in the ground, and only sticks out of the ground about 18-24 inches with a 50 amp plug on it in an old metal box. No breaker, no switch, no other plugs. This is a new RV park. In the country in southern Texas. They have been expanding rapidly. The electrical is no doubt questionable. I was certain that there was a regulation that required each pedestal or "pole" as I have been calling it, to have a breaker. As confirmed by someone above. I have never seen a pedestal without a breaker on it. I will get a picture next time I am there. I only go by a couple times a month to check on things, is 110 miles from my home.

Automotivetoys wrote:
**There is NO breaker on the meter pole that my RV is plugged into**

Sorry to hear about such extensive damage, especially on a brand new TT. Your TT is a 50 amper? Then what is the 30 amp breaker for that says "cord"? Is this in an old CG or relatively new?

Not entirely sure if you mean a pedestal that has a meter on top or a power utility company's power pole but I believe you mean the pedestal. The NEC requires a breaker or disconnecting means in a pedestal, article 551.77(B) "Disconnecting Means. A disconnecting switch or circuit breaker shall be provided in the site supply equipment for disconnecting the power supply to the recreational vehicle.". Upstream of the pedestal at the site, there will be a circuit breaker protecting the feeder cable to the pedestal (or run of pedestals) and would/should be a min. 30 amp. Electrically speaking, the pedestal feeder and your shore power cord would be protected against an overload or short circuit in that case. There is also the 50 amp breaker in the panel inside your TT. There shouldn't have been an overload or short circuit inside your TT (downstream of the panel's 50 amp breaker) to cause damage to the shore power cord or feeder cable.

But, depending on what the CG may have/had for a power distribution system and breaker feeding your pedestal, you could have been drawing up to 50 amps on a feeder that might have been rated for only 30 amps due to absence of a 30 amp breaker on the pedestal. (A 50 amp RV operates at 120/240 volts like a house but when on a 50-30 adapter, is at 50 amps 120 volts.) Maybe they removed the feeder breaker back at the main distribution or maybe it failed to trip, or maybe the connections were loose and caused overheating. If you happened to have been using an autoformer, that *could* be a factor as they raise the input current.

Maybe, if this is a really old CG, the code did not require a breaker in a pedestal? I have not gone back earlier than the '96 NEC so far but I would guess they were always required. Might be a question for the local electrical inspector. Or did the CG remove the breaker? If you were plugged into a 30 or 50 amp recept. at home or elsewhere that is not an RV park, you would not need a breaker at the recept. by code. Note that NEC would allow a disconnecting "switch" in lieu of a breaker in a pedestal. I've never seen that tho. The absence of a breaker in the pedestal is unlikely to have been a factor but not impossible depending on a number of things. It does raise the question tho., could the CG have made some illegal changes to the power distribution equipment in the office building (or wherever the main service is) or wiring or neglected to repair something? CGs often have an unqualified general purpose handyman doing electrical work. The local fire dep't. & electrical inspection dept. will undoubtedly do an investigation. Would be interesting to see their findings.

Since we don't know anything about the CG's electrical system, it could be a problem with the CG itself or it's not unheard of for a power company to have a problem on a high voltage line to a customer's property, like due to a fallen tree or a vehicle accident. Could there have been a lightning strike?

There had to have been a spike/surge or maybe 240 (or higher) volts to your TT to cause the damage it did. Even *if* there was no breaker at the pedestal, it wouldn't have helped to prevent damage from a spike or 240 (or higher) volts. There could be a few other possibilities but it's all a big question mark without a lot more info.

The normal procedure is to go to your insurance company. Providing they don't balk at the claim, they will deal with the CG's insurer or if necessary, take someone to court. An insurer has the right to subrogate which means they have the legal right to go after a third party to recover $$ they paid out on a claim. Sometimes they don't bother if it's a small claim and/or it's too messy and costly, then they won't do anything. Won't involve you at all. Will not have anything to do with an RV manufacturer either. A photo of the pedestal would be interesting to see. Other than curiosity, you don't need to worry about what the cause may have been.

As mentioned, although too late now, this is a very good example of why you should be using an EMS unit. Bad electrical systems in CGs are more prevalent than people think. An EMS should now be on your must-have list. Don't get a "surge suppressor" only. An EMS does a lot more. Please post followup info. if you have any.

Since your attention is focused on electrical at the moment, I highly recommend that you install a voltmeter inside your TT where it's readily visible to keep an eye on volts. Voltage problems are common and more in the summertime. Low is usually the problem, and when it is, it can damage AC units (can be cumulative over time too). If you will be travelling around to other CGs, you might invest in a Hughes autoformer to boost low voltage. If you ever come across a pedestal without a breaker again and/or it looks to be in rough shape, I'd look for another pedestal or CG.

Automotivetoys wrote:
I had always considered buying a power surge protector but never did. I was of the train of thought that "well I've been camping this long why do I need one now) well now I know! I had one installed on my home when I upgraded the panel box, I will make sure the RV and horse trailer always have a surge protector with them at all times in the future (hindsight being 20/20)

As detailed earlier make sure you don't invest in just a surge protector but one that can also detect a variety of power line errors, and if errors are detected prevent power from reaching the trailer. A lot of "surge protectors" don't do that.

Thank you for the many replies. The owner of the RV park has yet to contact me. I have my fingers crossed that when the new converter is installed on Wednesday (and 12v is restored) that everything (or most items) will come back on and function. I am planning on waiting to see if the new converter works before calling progressive. I don't mind covering the costs of the converter and labor. I have never had a claim with progressive on our RV policy. My replacement cost coverage (instead of actual cash value which I don't trust) is almost as much as the monthly payment on the RV. I am apprehensive of them raising my rates. The trailer closest to the office burned to the ground. Site next to that was empty. Then me next to the empty spot. I had always considered buying a power surge protector but never did. I was of the train of thought that "well I've been camping this long why do I need one now) well now I know! I had one installed on my home when I upgraded the panel box, I will make sure the RV and horse trailer always have a surge protector with them at all times in the future (hindsight being 20/20)

KD4UPL wrote:
There isn't necessarily supposed to be a breaker at the outlet where you plug in your RV. If it is on a single 30A circuit fed from a breaker in a panel somewhere else then that's all that is needed. Since there was only 1 outlet there and not a 50, 30, 20 arrangement I would guess it was a single circuit.

There isn't any one wiring convention that applies in all jurisdictions ... here in Ontario the most common campsite post arrangement in the provincial park system is 30 amp / duplex 15 amp service with each service being protected by it's own post mounted breaker. However, here's a pic of a campsite pic at one of our local conservation area campgrounds - 30 amp / duplex 15 amp service, no post mounted breaker.



We'd also usually only see 50 amp service in some privately owned parks, 20 amp service I only see when camping in the US ... the point being that campsite electric service varies greatly depending on where you're camping.