F450 Fiver Bed - Will This Fit A TC?

Ok I found a few old photos from the plant where the beds were made.

The blue F-550 was the prototype of the Classic Traveler. It made it's public debut at a SEMA show, I think in November 1999. Might have been 2000... memory is fading. Anyway, it was initially called the "Super CrewZer II", because Fontaine also built the F-650 Super CrewZer for Ford, which was sold as a completed vehicle by Ford. In fact, this plant was immediately adjacent to Ford's Kentucky Truck Plant in Louisville. The Super CrewZer II name got nixed for the F-550 version of RV haulers, partly because it was not sold directly by Ford, but sold as an authorized ship through.

Notice the plain diamond plate under the rear cab window of the blue truck, instead of the smooth chrome trim with the letters "Classic Traveler" cut into it? That is the clearest evidence visible in this photo that this truck is "pre" Classic Traveler.

The blue F-550 also has the Silent Drive rear air suspension, rather than the parallelogram ReycoGranning (and later, the Link) air suspension. There are other small differences, but this post is about beds, so I'll focus on that.

The steel tub that is hidden underneath the fiberglass beauty cover is seen fitted to the F-550 frame in the image directly below the blue truck. Notice there is no suspension system on that F-550 frame, because the original springs were removed in prep for air suspension installation, part of which usually got put on before the bed was fitted (the transverse track rod and axle cradle in between the rails). The remainder of the air suspension system is outboard of the rails, using it's own subframe between the front hangar and axle that sisters to the main frame.

The steel bed has heavy gauge hat channel cross sills, and two tubular steel longitudinal runners. Below these runners are a "cushion" of solid oak. This is the most textbook perfect second unit body installation you can get... going by every letter of the book from Ford's Body Builder's Advisory Service. Those engineers like to see spacer between the truck frame rails and the second unit body rails as a "cushion" to allow for frame twist.

There are also sheer plates from the steel tube subframe that bolt to the side (web) of the truck's frame. Again, by the book. No Ubolts. No flange mounting. This is how it should be done. The two black tabs you can see in this photo that bolt to the web of the frame are the hitch platform assembly that is integrated width the bed mounting. Notice those huge bolts that double as huge shear pins, and still allow for flexibility.

The next photo is of the welding jig in the plant used to fabricate the subframes under the the steel tub. Notice the frame rails appear deeper in this bottom left hand image than in the image of the chassis (with tires) in the picture immediately above it. That's because the chassis pic with the tires is an actual F-550, and the jig in the pic below simulates an F-650 frame. The steel beds and subframes for the F-550's and F-650's were welded on the same jigs, since both frames conform to the NTEA standard of 34" frame rail outside width.

Using the jigs is also another indication of the care and quality put into production of these beds. The idea was to keep the computers in the trucks protected from stray welding currents, and to keep the truck wiring harnesses away from molten metal sparks flying hither and yon. Also, the cabs stayed nice and clean, and there was more room in the shop without the entire truck being present.

So most of the trucks were stored outside during the various stages of production. The right hand column of images shows the trucks being parked in the yard, with the smokestacks of KTP in the background.

The top two images on the right (of the white truck) are of the steel bed, mounted and coated, ready for the fiberglass dress. As you can see, the yard is filled with F-650s and F-550s side by side. You might notice a competitors RV body in the yard, as well as the late '70's dump truck!

I had forgotten whether the ends of the steel tub were closed out or not at this stage, and it turns out they were not, so I'm posting these pics for the OP (Mike) so he can see them for purposes of having his bolt on and off tailgate made. Turns out there was no back side wrap, so forget what I was guessing about that "2 inches" on either side.

The last pic on the bottom right hand corner is of a completed F-650 Super CrewZer bed, with no tail gate. Yes, what you see is fiberglass, but what you can't see is a lot stronger than a normal pickup bed.

trail-explorer wrote:
Is a fiberglass bed going to have the floor strength to support a camper? I don't know.

Good to see you've come around to the most sensible and practical solution. When I read the OP four pages back, I said, "Why not just cut in a tailgate and be done with it?"

The bed and walls are heavy steel. BigToe said 14 & 16 gauge. The fiberglass is on the outside only. It is a much more heavy duty bed than a standard pickup bed.

Is a fiberglass bed going to have the floor strength to support a camper? I don't know.

THere's probably truck beds sitting around at companies that to the opposite of what you want to do, the take a stock truck, remove the stock bed and put a flatbed or a service body on them. Check your local phone book and see if you can find places that work on trucks - I bet you can find a bed that way.

Thanks for the good advice guys. I found a guy that does custom work on bikes and cars. He can cut the rear level with the truck bed and then modify the removed piece to make it a tailgate that is easily removeable. That was a great suggestion here.

I don't have a storage box in the bed but I will need to cut some plywood for either side of the hitch rails.

Next step is find a dealer and see what I like and how it would work.

Pete_k wrote:
I'm trying to figure out how to get one my Kodiak., Fuel tank would have go go on mine for sure.

The cab side exhaust stacks will dirty the TC. Perhaps extensions or rerouting them would be preferable.

Build up the goose neck notch with horse stall mats and then put one layer across the the entire diamond plate to allow the TC to have something to grip (depending on your cab height, you may have to build up the bed more to clear the cab over).

You need an 8' length of bed to carry a full sized TC. The beaver tail end may not give enough support, so the TC may have to slide forward more. A short bed TC only needs about 6.5' of floor length, so you can consider that option instead of removing your fuel tank. This is the roomiest SB TC that I have found: http://www.hostcampers.com/subs/campers/camper_Aspen%20SB.html

That tail with the notch looks like a separate piece . Have you contacted Fontaine to see if is removable ( bolted on ) ?

As far as the low rails it might be an advantage and give easier access for storage along the sides . It has no affect on mounting tiedowns .

Can not tell from the picture , is the inside of the bed flat ?

Can you post a pic of the inside of the bed? I for one think with the tailgate mod your set for a truck camper. Should be someone near you with a T/C that would work with you to see if it would fit.
I'm trying to figure out how to get one my Kodiak., Fuel tank would have go go on mine for sure.

I see three issues with you using your current bed which can be corrected:

1. You need a 5-6' wide opening all the way down to the load floor. Trimming the fixed rear V-gate off and adding attachment hardware to use it when not using the truck camper would be the least expensive option.

2. Front bed mounted tool box interferes with camper fully sliding in. Either remove the tool box to use the camper or use a short bed camper to keep your box in place.

3. Fifth wheel hitch hardware prevents a flat bed surface. Create a platform high enough around the hardware to create a flat load surface (many have done this.

Having short bed rails does not matter since a camper can sit on a flat bed with no rails.

Mike@Asheville wrote:
BigToe, my bed rail height concern is based on my understanding of the 13" height on my bed vs the 19" height on a pickup bed and the gap that would create for the TC. If I understood others comments correctly that visually would be an issue, am I correct?

When I ordered the bed I had the option of the tailgate. It was an additional $1000 and at the time I didn't think it necessary. Having the cutout done and a tailgate fabricated from it is a great suggestion. Would the way the rear flares out keep a TC from fitting?

Yes, you are correct about the visual gap of the camper along the side of the truck. I simply misinterpreted your earlier post as suggesting a change in tailgate would have a cause and effect relationship with clearance gap, and was back to thinking about fivers, and somehow imagined you were thinking about putting a pickup bed tail gate on the Fontaine. My bad.

So I don't misinterpret you again, I have to ask what you mean by "rear flares"?

If you mean the fiberglass sides that serve as dually fenders that blend into the tail light buckets and also blends into the rear bumper cover, then no, I don't see an interference.

The break line where Fontaine put their tailgate in that bed is even with that little bump out hump just under the recessed 3 lamp marker ID lamp trio, which is just under the V notch in your fixed back panel. Below those three ID lamps, there should be the word "FONTAINE" embossed into the bump out bumper mould, right above the licence plate bucket.

With the tail gate option, the three recessed ID lights are moved down to where it says "FONTAINE". (Hence, this mold had to be modified to be smooth so as not to look tacky). When the tail gate is opened, the load surface of the tailgate is even with the load surface of the bed tub deck. That puts the hinge pivot point of the tail gate about even with the bottom of the tail lights.

There is quite a bit of fabrication involved. That's why it cost so much, and that is also why it was an option, and not standard, to keep the truck more affordable, since the target market didn't need a tailgate anyway, and in fact most dedicated fiver totes remove the tailgate and replace it with a notch gate.

I was sort of suggesting a compromise after the fact modification. No doubt, the factory build would be better. But that water was under the bridge.

The more I think about it, the more I think of this as an opportunity for you to do something out of the box (ha ha). You might consider having a truck camper specially built for your bed. You have a 4x4, and while it isn't a jeep, it does afford you some unimproved fire road camping capability, similar to what a light brush truck fire apparatus might be able to traverse and come back home in.

With that in mind, I can see the inconvenience of pulling a trailer on solo trips. And I can also see that while your truck might be able to handle a big 11 foot Lance or heavy Big Foot 3000 series, you may not need a camper that big when exploring solo. So something small, tight, and light might be to your benefit. It may not even need to extend beyond your truck bed end wall.

The fact that your air suspension has built in KNEELING capability could allow the custom built camper to be raised over and above the existing notched wall of the kneeling truck, if sturdy enough camper jacks were built into the your custom camper.

Also, the bed rail gap would no longer be an issue, and you could leverage all of the space available in the non standard dimensions of the interior steel tub to make a camper base the most efficient and stable possible.

Or do like my neighbor... he rigs up a pickup truck "bed tent" he got for $200 when he goes hunting and fishing solo.