Family of 6 future tow vehicle.

[anw7405]

I'm just looking for some opinions here.

Current situation is:
2005 GMC yukon XL 2500 8.1 big block with 180,xxx miles.
2017 coachman Freedom express 320bhds probably around 9.5k -10k loaded up ready to camp.

We live in Oklahoma and really want to start venturing out west in another 2 years or so. That equals Rocky Mountains and others as well. The 8.1 handles the 37' TT pretty good around here and small mountains but I'm not sure its up to multiple long trips in the high elevation mountains. What to do?

option #1 Keep the 8.1 and slap a Raylar intake modification and A tune. big Hp and Tq gains for about $1700 or so. Probably close to 500 WTQ.
pros: 3 row seats and comfort, low price
cons: not forced indution

option#2 Get a 2011-2012 cummins or duramax truck.(before DEF)
pros: plenty of power
cons: cost of purchase, cost of ownership, and cramped with 6 people.

option#3 A diesel excursion.
pros: 3 rows of seats, and forced induction, should be able to get OK power out of the 6.0 or the 7.3.
cons: cost of purchase, cost of ownership, an older truck

Thoughts? What would you do?

[anw7405]

LIKE2BUILD wrote:

parker.rowe wrote:

vjstangelo wrote:
....The 8.1 should be fine, ...since it has the Allison transmission.

Suburbans didn't get the Allison, but other than having less gears the 4l80E is a fine transmission.

Correct. The CARRYALL platform did not get the Allison 1000 transmission. I think the 8.1L got a 4L85E transmission, not the 4L80E. I don't recall the difference, but the 85 version was engineered to handle the higher torque of the 8.1L.

OP, after all this discussion it sure sounds like your current vehicle is the one that meets your needs. Making the switch to 4.10 gears or going back to OEM tire size might just be the ticket for you.



Oh, one more thing. Are you still using the OEM receiver? If so, ditch that flimsy thing and get a good Class V Receiver. You'll find much better load transfer with your WD hitch and your wife and 4 kids will be much safer. The OEM receiver on that era of GM truck was poorly engineered and built.

KJ

I learn something new everyday. I thought I had a 4L80e tranny. I did replace the OEM receiver with a beefy Curt XD.

[BenK]

Messed up and here is the RAM chart

Note that the only thing changed is the diff ratio and it begets higher MTWR via higher GCWR




Click For Full-Size Image.

[BenK]

To the PM...showing it here for others to see

Here is an old GCWR chart to show how GM at least (most all other OEMs do so too) cross references the diff ratio vs GCWR

Note published as often anymore, but was able to make a copy of this one


Note that it stops at 4.1, as that is the highest numeric from GM. 2003 copy

Click For Full-Size Image/


from the 2000 towing guide

Click For Full-Size Image.


To the PM, asking about his RAM 1500


Click For Full-Size Image.

[BenK]

All are half ton TVs vs the OPs...and...if the OP's has the F60 option (look at the RPO code label in the glovebox door)...he has a 1 ton Suburban...via the 1 ton front torsion springs

That F60 snow plow prep otion also begets the 1 ton rear shoe/drum brakes...why parts counter folks always ask what shoe width. Regular 3/4 ton has 2.5in wide and the 1 ton has 3.5 in wide shoes...ops...he has the rear disc setup...don't know if it has the 1 ton rear brakes

Or if the number of wheel lugs makes more sense...half tons typically has6 lugs and 3/4 ton and 1 ton has 8. The fake half ton has 7 lugs & LT tires

Changing diff gearset to 4.88's is about $1k per in my area. The 0.5 or 0.7 OD from Gearvendors is about $4k. A higher 8th gear (double OD) than the stock 4th

That allows the oversized tires the OP has to stay and mostly still be able to smoke them...even with torque management

Then have a higher GCWR, but 4.88 is off their charts...so my guess...since their charts stop at 4.1...which is higher than 3.73's

[theoldwizard1]

mkirsch wrote:
I'm hearing more and more that this 7.3 is an ugly rumor, no substance to it.

I believe the Internet rumor mill in this case because union official let it slip that their plant was getting the new engine.

It sure has been a long time coming and hopefully it will be available for 2020MY !

mkirsch wrote:

Also the Expedition doesn't have the payload capacity for this application, even if you completely ignore the payload ratings. Needs an 8-lug vehicle for four growing children and a ~9000lb trailer. An Expy could tow the trailer OR haul the kids, but not both.

You are correct ! With a couple of beefy teenage linebackers and all of teenagers "necessities for life", the only solution I see is a 3/4 ton crew cab and a second small car.

[theoldwizard1]

Grit dog wrote:
Actually, for a couple trips a year and a luxurious daily/kid carrier/snack wagon, long wheelbase Ecoboost Expedition.
Beef up the rear suspension and LT tires and have the best new stock puller SUV going up the hill.

Newer Expeditions use Nivomat (by Sachs) "self leveling" hydraulic rear shocks in their coil-over-spring rear suspension. These are not a "new" invention as they have been installed on many high end European vehicles. This is NOT a substitute for a weight distribution hitch.

LT tires DO make a difference !

[mkirsch]

vjstangelo wrote:
We took our V10 Excursion loaded up from VA to WY 3x with no problems. The 8.1 should be fine, probably better than the Rx since it has the Allison transmission. The issue is would you trust a vehicle with 180k miles headed into the deserted west? I see Ford is coming out with a new 7.3 gas motor and if they install that into the Expedition, it may be a winning combo for you. I think any Ex out there will have similar miles as your burb.

I'm hearing more and more that this 7.3 is an ugly rumor, no substance to it.

Also the Expedition doesn't have the payload capacity for this application, even if you completely ignore the payload ratings. Needs an 8-lug vehicle for four growing children and a ~9000lb trailer. An Expy could tow the trailer OR haul the kids, but not both.

[bartlettj]

anw7405 wrote:
I'm just looking for some opinions here.

Current situation is:
2005 GMC yukon XL 2500 8.1 big block with 180,xxx miles.
2017 coachman Freedom express 320bhds probably around 9.5k -10k loaded up ready to camp.

We live in Oklahoma and really want to start venturing out west in another 2 years or so. That equals Rocky Mountains and others as well. The 8.1 handles the 37' TT pretty good around here and small mountains but I'm not sure its up to multiple long trips in the high elevation mountains. What to do?

option #1 Keep the 8.1 and slap a Raylar intake modification and A tune. big Hp and Tq gains for about $1700 or so. Probably close to 500 WTQ.
pros: 3 row seats and comfort, low price
cons: not forced indution

option#2 Get a 2011-2012 cummins or duramax truck.(before DEF)
pros: plenty of power
cons: cost of purchase, cost of ownership, and cramped with 6 people.

option#3 A diesel excursion.
pros: 3 rows of seats, and forced induction, should be able to get OK power out of the 6.0 or the 7.3.
cons: cost of purchase, cost of ownership, an older truck

Thoughts? What would you do?

Friend has a diesel Excursion... he's been working on the suspension for years trying to get it to drive right, throwing all kinds of mods and supposed correction kits into it. We go on long road trips together often. I drive a diesel GMC crew, he drives the Excursion. My truck tracks straight as an arrow, he's bouncing and wandering around. He gets tired of driving because he's constantly sawing the wheel trying to keep it lined up. Drive one before you decide if you want one.

[deltabravo]

anw7405 wrote:
option#2 Get a 2011-2012 cummins or duramax truck.(before DEF)

For a Pre DEF Duramax, it has to be 2010 and prior (LMM: 2007.5-2010, LBZ: mid 2006-2007 Classic)
2011 is the LML with DEF.

[BenK]

Nitrided gear teeth to make thdm a bit stronger, along with a bit more HD clutches are tge main upgrade from 80 to i5

The 8.1 has about 40-50 more torque vs the 7.4..but the biggest difference is red line was raised....so a bit more HP

Again, consider going lower to a 4.55, 4.88 and add a GearVendors OD

That will provide the snap off ggd linr, abolity to tow heavier and on steeper in nclines, and havd an 8 speed 4L85E with a double OD

[parker_rowe]

LIKE2BUILD wrote:

Correct. The CARRYALL platform did not get the Allison 1000 transmission. I think the 8.1L got a 4L85E transmission, not the 4L80E. I don't recall the difference, but the 85 version was engineered to handle the higher torque of the 8.1L.

OP, after all this discussion it sure sounds like your current vehicle is the one that meets your needs. Making the switch to 4.10 gears or going back to OEM tire size might just be the ticket for you.

Oh, one more thing. Are you still using the OEM receiver? If so, ditch that flimsy thing and get a good Class V Receiver. You'll find much better load transfer with your WD hitch and your wife and 4 kids will be much safer. The OEM receiver on that era of GM truck was poorly engineered and built.

KJ

Right right. the 4l85 is an upgraded version, like the 4l65 vs 4l60. Not sure what the changes are.

The 4l80 is already a stout unit as is. I know everyone hates performance car comparisons, but when a 4l80 can run mid 9's with over a 1000whp with nothing but a shift kit (with a stock 6.0 short block too, another testament to strength)...you can't dismiss that entirely! 🙂

[LIKE2BUILD]

parker.rowe wrote:

vjstangelo wrote:
....The 8.1 should be fine, ...since it has the Allison transmission.

Suburbans didn't get the Allison, but other than having less gears the 4l80E is a fine transmission.

Correct. The CARRYALL platform did not get the Allison 1000 transmission. I think the 8.1L got a 4L85E transmission, not the 4L80E. I don't recall the difference, but the 85 version was engineered to handle the higher torque of the 8.1L.

OP, after all this discussion it sure sounds like your current vehicle is the one that meets your needs. Making the switch to 4.10 gears or going back to OEM tire size might just be the ticket for you.

Oh, one more thing. Are you still using the OEM receiver? If so, ditch that flimsy thing and get a good Class V Receiver. You'll find much better load transfer with your WD hitch and your wife and 4 kids will be much safer. The OEM receiver on that era of GM truck was poorly engineered and built.

KJ

[parker_rowe]

vjstangelo wrote:
We took our V10 Excursion loaded up from VA to WY 3x with no problems. The 8.1 should be fine, probably better than the Rx since it has the Allison transmission. The issue is would you trust a vehicle with 180k miles headed into the deserted west? I see Ford is coming out with a new 7.3 gas motor and if they install that into the Expedition, it may be a winning combo for you. I think any Ex out there will have similar miles as your burb.

Suburbans didn't get the Allison, but other than having less gears the 4l80E is a fine transmission.

As far as HD SUV's go it's about as good as it gets. Only other option is the Excursion as discussed.

[vjstangelo]

We took our V10 Excursion loaded up from VA to WY 3x with no problems. The 8.1 should be fine, probably better than the Rx since it has the Allison transmission. The issue is would you trust a vehicle with 180k miles headed into the deserted west? I see Ford is coming out with a new 7.3 gas motor and if they install that into the Expedition, it may be a winning combo for you. I think any Ex out there will have similar miles as your burb.

[carringb]

Adam R wrote:

How does that combo weigh anywhere close to 25,000 lbs? Also, I'm farily certain you can't tow doubles in Oregon unless the first trailer is a 5th wheel.

Van on this trip was a bit over 10,000 pounds (it's 8,500 empty). TT = 13,000 loaded. Sleds + trailer ~1,800. I didn't weight the sled trailer, but its galvy, not aluminum. Van and TT have been weighed many times.

No, you can't tow doubles in Oregon non-commercial, even with a 5th wheel. This was in Idaho. For taking sleds around OR I'll either add a hoist, or a drop-down deck over the hood with some extended ramps, and carry them up top. Biggest problem with the ramp idea it traction backup up the ramp. Loading them facing backwards might cause fairings and other body work to come loose. Would be nice if OR and WA would ease up, and realize doubles can be done safely, just like in every other western state.