Hi all,I'm new to the forum. My wife and I have a 17 month old and we are planning to buy a travel trailer this winter. We both have fond memories growing up camping with our own parents and are excited to start the tradition with our daughter. We are really interested in the Keystone Outback 21RS which has a slide out the back with a queen or king bed and bunk beds at the front. I know this section of the forum isn't for advice on certain trailers so I'll post another topic in the proper section on that subject. Either way, this trailer weights about 4500lbs dry and has a 6500lb GVWR. We would prefer not to buy a 1/2 ton truck due to overall length and we don't have need for a truck box. We would prefer a full size SUV and are really leaning towards a Nissan Armada with a tow package. The Armada seems to get good overall reviews (minus a couple issues such as cracking exhaust headers and radiator) and is notoriously bad on gas compared to other similarly capable vehicles. I've looked into VW Touaregs and Grand Cherokees with diesel engines and v8s but I don't think towing this size of trailer with one of these smaller unibody design SUVs would be ideal. Our budget for a TV is $25k CAD. I would like something about 2008 or newer with 125k or less kilometers (78000 miles). I want something with an All Wheel Drive option, not just 4hi/lo due to the climate we live in and mountain passes we drive (this rules the Sequoia and many older 1/2 ton trucks out). Preowned full size SUVs unfortunately seem to be a fair bit more expensive than half ton trucks of similar age and mileage. What are your thoughts on the Armada and/or what do you think would be the best tow vehicle within my budget and criteria. Thanks!!

With that budget, finding a used Chevy Tahoe/ GMC Yukon (7500 lb tow rating when equipped with tow package) or Ford Expedition (9200 lb when equipped with two package) shouldn't be too difficult. I know that the Tahoe comes with an 'Auto-4WD' option on some models (I think LT and up), I'm not sure about the Ford. You also might want to consider vehicles a few years older (05, maybe) with low Kilometres if you can find them. There's also used Yukon Denali's to consider, though I hear the full time AWD system kills the gas mileage on those things. As for the Armada, I've heard great things about it as a tow vehicle, though admittedly, mpg's suck something fierce. The 5.6 litre V8 is plenty powerful, and as far as I'm aware, the biggest interior downside is the third row seat is somewhat cramped. Finally, if you can find one, an 08/09 Dodge Durango with the Hemi, 4x4, and a 3.92 rear diff, has an 8700 lb tow rating. it's also BOF, so just something to consider for options.

we don't have need for a truck boxThat's because you've never had one. Put a $200-2000 cover on the bed and you have the world's largest trunk. For outdoor enthusiasts it is a great place to put dirty/wet stuff. It just isn't climate controlled. Crew cab pickups cost less new and used than the same equipment on an SUV. And they also tend to have higher payloads and receiver limits. So think about that a little more.Regarding SUVs, I prefer the 2009+ GM Twins, 2007+ Ford Expedition, and 2007+ Sequoia over the Armada. I don't like the Armada gearing as well as competitor 6-spds. Also, GM sells about 75% of the full sized SUV market. That doesn't mean it is the best for everyone, but clearly it is very good for most. If you can afford a 2007+ Yukon Denali, you'll love the power.

I have a Nissan Titan crew cab with a tow package and really love it. I use it to tow a 21 ft Hybrid Travel Trailer.I chose Nissan because I have owned Nissan trucks for years and have always loved their reliability.The Armada should have all the power you need.If you are really interested in the Armada, check out this forum of Armada owners who tow with them: http://www.clubarmada.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=89

Just as an FYI, the Expedition has an AWD setting on 4x4 models.

I have made some very costly mistakes over nearly two decades and multiple TV purchases. My advice is to choose a TV not for this first RV but for the next one. Twice I have found myself replacing a TV still very much in its prime, simply because my taste in RVs outgrew it. That gets really expensive.

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cj_rezz
Explorer
Nov 20, 2015
2012Coleman wrote:
You are calculating tongue weight based on the dry weight of the TT. Are you going camping with nothing in there? Use the gross weight.

Opps, on my 'Assumptions' page I was calculating tongue weight based on dry weight but on my actual calculations, I wasn't referencing that cell and was using 15% of the trailer's GVWR.
2012Coleman
Explorer II
Nov 20, 2015
You are calculating tongue weight based on the dry weight of the TT. Are you going camping with nothing in there? Use the gross weight.
Allworth
Explorer II
Nov 19, 2015
As someone else mentioned; the Armada is not a nimble, easy daily driver.

My daughter's 2012 Armada is almost as much of a PITA in parking garages and shopping centers as my 2006 long bed 1-Ton Silverado (crew cab). Not quite, but almost! AND, I'm certainly not suggesting a one ton long bed crew cab for what you are trying to do.

In town (without the trailer) my Duramax Diesel gets better mileage than her gasser Mada. Week in; week out; every time.

On the highway (without the trailer) same results. Every time.

Diesel fuel is more expensive, but we probably break even on cost for the same number of miles (she drives a lot more miles per week than I do when we are not on the road).

She pulls the ski boat. I pull 13,800 pounds of trailer.

She can put the dog in the back to go to the Vet. After pulling the hitch (10 minutes) I can drop a ton of gravel in the back for a landscaping project.

It appears that you have decided what you are going to do and want somebody to agree with you. If it makes you happy...DO IT! On the other hand, you may have shut some doors without trying the alternatives.

Have you considered renting a pickup for a week and driving it everywhere? Sure, it isn't cheap to rent but it is a lot less expensive than buying a tow vehicle and then finding it isn't satisfactory.
bid_time
Nomad II
Nov 19, 2015
You need this: towing weights ... then click on
this
cj_rezz
Explorer
Nov 19, 2015
Ok, this towing stuff is confusing. So to make sense of it and analyze the towing capabilities of different vehicles, I made a spreadsheet. Started off just comparing an Armada to a Titan since it's the same engine. I can see what you guys are saying about the tongue weight and payload.

Here are my assumptions:

Here are my results:
TomG2
Explorer
Nov 19, 2015
A salesperson once told me when I inquired about using a SUV for a tow vehicle, "Get a pickup, we have enough trouble keeping SUV's right side up all by themselves". Certainly, there are SUV's capable of towing, but the typical short wheelbase, high center of gravity models might not be the best for towing long heavy trailers. Yes, there are exceptions to everything.
IdaD
Explorer
Nov 19, 2015
tragusa3 wrote:
It is your choice ultimately, but I'll throw a word in. If I were OK with an Armada, I wouldn't be considering a half ton truck "huge".

Ours is our family vehicle, and my commuter. After the first month, I was adjusted to the size and haven't thought about it since.

I wouldn't tow any hard sided TT with less than a half ton truck (except the little Scamp's, etc.).

I only think about the size of my Ram in parking garages, particularly when my antenna is hitting the signs and/or concrete roof cross members. :E

But I agree with your point on size. I don't agree that a full size SUV can't handle a hard sided TT, though. The limiting factor is weight so you need to be careful there, but if you can stay within axle and payload ratings, there should be no issues. I would keep the trailer pretty short too, since your wheelbase is shorter in the SUV.
ACZL
Explorer
Nov 19, 2015
On a side note about AWD. Keep in mind that if you have an issue w/ a tire providing they have some miles on them and it need replacement, was told by my tire shop that all 4 should be done so as to not mess up the AWD system as it will try to compensate for the 1 mismatched tire. At least w/ a non AWD, if same case w/ tire, get just 2 and keep on same axle. Have you or has it been suggested to look at a GM Suburban?
LarryJM
Explorer II
Nov 19, 2015
bid_time wrote:
Glad to see the "you need a diesel dually to tow a popup" crowd are alive and well.

As are the clueless crowd.

Larry
bid_time
Nomad II
Nov 19, 2015
Glad to see the "you need a diesel dually to tow a popup" crowd are alive and well. Get a vehicle with the proper ratings to tow a 6500 lbs trailer with a 800± tongue weight and you are good to go.

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