First travel trailer

[travelandy]

Hi all! Just joined up and I already have a question. Now that my wife and I are retired, we would like to do some travelling. Unfortunately, as with so many others these days, finances will be a bit tight so "brand new" is an expression rarely used around our home. I have found a nice, used 2004 Nissan Pathfinder with only 86,000 km on it - it looks as if it has never seen a winter!! I would like to get a travel trailer since, for various reasons, a camper just won't do. Given the Pathfinder's 5,000 lb towing capacity I think that a 17 ft. to 19 ft. trailer is as big as I should go. Having said that, I have found listed an old (No year indicated) 21 ft. HiLo trailer for sale in Toronto. I checked the NADA guide for RV's and for that length, depending on the year, the weights shown are between 2,600 and 3,200 lb. It seems there was a "FunLite" model that was especially light and available for a few years. Anyway ... to the question - does anyone have information about these trailers regarding reliability of the mechanisms, leaks, availability of parts? The seller is asking $2,600 which seems a bit low (Why am I complaining?) but I've never seen one of these and know little about them. Thanks, in advance and sorry about the length of this post - I tend to talk a lot!

Andy

[Atlee]

I had a 22 ft tow lite by HI Lo for over a year. You need to make sure it hasn't leaked. During the time I had my hi lo, I saw pictures of lots of those units where the owner had done extensive repairs to the walls.

The idea of them is great. I can say, using the exact same tow vehicle, 2005 Ford XLT 4x4 with 5.7 triton, and I lost about 1.5 miles to the gallon when I switch to a regular full height trailer.

But the biggest item to be concerned and to not skimp on regular maintenance is the cable system that lifts the top. From every thing I read and researched, there was very little failure rate with the cables, as long as they were properly maintained.

I traded it for 2 main reasons. 1) In my 22 footer, the bed doubled as a sofa, and the sleeping position was port to starboard. Therefore one of us had to crawl over the other to get out of bed. 2) I could never completely get out of my mind what would happen if a cable broke while out on the road somewhere.

It pulled wonderfully, and did give better MPG when towing.

travelandy wrote:
Hi all! Just joined up and I already have a question. Now that my wife and I are retired, we would like to do some travelling. Unfortunately, as with so many others these days, finances will be a bit tight so "brand new" is an expression rarely used around our home. I have found a nice, used 2004 Nissan Pathfinder with only 86,000 km on it - it looks as if it has never seen a winter!! I would like to get a travel trailer since, for various reasons, a camper just won't do. Given the Pathfinder's 5,000 lb towing capacity I think that a 17 ft. to 19 ft. trailer is as big as I should go. Having said that, I have found listed an old (No year indicated) 21 ft. HiLo trailer for sale in Toronto. I checked the NADA guide for RV's and for that length, depending on the year, the weights shown are between 2,600 and 3,200 lb. It seems there was a "FunLite" model that was especially light and available for a few years. Anyway ... to the question - does anyone have information about these trailers regarding reliability of the mechanisms, leaks, availability of parts? The seller is asking $2,600 which seems a bit low (Why am I complaining?) but I've never seen one of these and know little about them. Thanks, in advance and sorry about the length of this post - I tend to talk a lot!

Andy

[travelandy]

tatest wrote:


Starting out with "do I buy XXX as a tow vehicle" to tow something "I don't know what it is going to be" is the wrong way to approach the problem, from my experience. The more limited your budget, the less freedom you have to make big mistakes. Starting with "this is the tow vehicle I want to buy" is the biggest mistake, in my experience.

Thanks for the tips and so sorry to hear about your wife. Unfortunately, up here in the Great White North, many things are quite a bit more expensive to buy than in the U.S. Even a half decent van conversion was way out of our budget range. Basically, any such vehicle with less than a 160,000 km (100,000 mi,) and less than 10 years old was into the $17,000 to $20,000 range or more. We did, however, check out what we felt we needed space-wise, etc. and settled on a travel trailer in the 17 ft. to 19 ft. range. We had previously stayed in TT's of this size (rented) when our kids were younger and still at home. Living in one would have been problematic, but we were just using it as a "motel room" and spending our days elsewhere. Once we decided on that, I looked into what TV could safely tow this size and weight TT while staying within our budget. The Pathfinder came closest and in this case we were able to get one in excellent condition even though it was an '04. Again, we are looking for a place to sleep and eat and occasionally relax between runs to various touristy areas. We really don't need a huge living space and there's no way we want to spend the $20,000 or more (more likely) to buy a pickup and larger heavier trailer. The HiLo caught my eye because when I checked out figures, I discovered that for some years, the weights were at or under 3,000 lbs for the 21 footers, which after all my calculations, gave us a reasonably good margin of safety. I realize that it's not the perfect solution, but I feel is a workable one and ,well, it is the one we can afford. Worst case scenario is that we don't like it and have to sell the TT at a loss. I'd rather be trying to unload a $3,000 to $4,000 TT (More potential buyers) than a $10,000 to $12,000 one. A lot less funds at risk. And as I've said , but will repeat, we have used TT's in this size and we were satisfied with them for the use at the time. I wouldn't want to park it in Florida or Arizona to live in for 4 or 5 months, but that's not our plan. We will travel, stop here and there to rest and to visit and then be on our way. Not a huge difference, I realize, but we feel it is workable and worth trying.

Andy

[tatest]

This whole shopping process gets weird.

When I retired from an assignment in China, I came back to the U.S. and bought a medium size SUV with a 5000 pound nominal towing capacity and an idea of RVing with a modest travel trailer. We went two years visiting dealers and going to RV shows, looking at conventional 18-22 foot travel trailers in that weight range, longer lightweights (in 2003 they were just coming onto the market), HiLos and TrailManors, as well as a range of motorhome offerings for 18-foot type B's up to 34-foot A gassers.

Then I learned that my 6000 pound towing capacity was reduced by what I carried in my SUV, so for trips with my daughter, her husband and children, I might be looking at a 4000-4500 pound trailer. This got into the "not big enough for all of us" vs "too heavy to tow" battle, thus looking at either self contained motorhomes that fit my wife's size needs, or the combination of a travel trailer big enough (23-28 feet) and a larger vehicle to tow it.

Our alternatives came down to either buying a 28-foot TT and a truck big enough to tow it (I had found a 3/4 ton F-250 for under $5000) or a motorhome that had equivalent space. In the end, shopping the used market, a 30-foot class C motorhome won out (we traded the SUV for an Accord my wife was comfortable driving). The class C worked well for the remaining seven years of my wife's life.

You need to work out just what it is you really want to do. If it is just the two of you, you have many options. A camper van conversion, ranging from Westfalia camper to fully equipped B motorhome, could work. A travel trailer pulled by a car, truck, van or SUV could work. You need (your wife needs) to figure out how much living space is needed, that leads to what is necessary to haul it.

You must start out with solutions to the "how will it be used" and "how much space is needed" problems. Only then can you start on "what kind of motorized vehicle" or "what do I need as a tow vehicle" problems.

Starting out with "do I buy XXX as a tow vehicle" to tow something "I don't know what it is going to be" is the wrong way to approach the problem, from my experience. The more limited your budget, the less freedom you have to make big mistakes. Starting with "this is the tow vehicle I want to buy" is the biggest mistake, in my experience. But I may have just done it again, buying a 12 passenger van with 6000 pounds tow capacity and 3000 pounds payload, not knowing what it is I want to tow, if anything. But at least I have some large margins for error.

[rbpru]

Trailmanors are an interesting concept. We looked into them but they were rather expensive.

The only Trailmanor owner I met was quite pleased with it. She liked the fact that is was hard sided and easy to tow.

[travelandy]

kknowlton wrote:
Hi-Los seem to have been well built. My main concern with them is that they are now orphans; the company is out of business. Another similar type design with a company that is still in business is Trailmanor. You pull the top parts up manually but springs help make it fairly easy - that's my understanding. (Haven't tried it personally). Another concern about both brands is the expense - they are pricier per square foot than "regular" travel trailers or popups. Otherwise, possibly a good choice for a smaller tow vehicle. (Lack of storage noted.)

Never think of an RV as a financial investment; they all depreciate, and unlike cars, with a few exceptions (Airstream is one), the really old ones aren't worth more as antiques. They are an investment in vacation enjoyment, family time, enjoying nature, seeing the country, and making lasting memories.

Yep, absolutely right. Once used, these things will only be worth what the next person is willing to pay - if you can find someone to buy it. We just want to do a little travelling within our budget and this seemed to be a better way to go than motels. We had used a camper when the kids were still around (And we were all a lot younger) but a camper won't do now. We have spent time in a 17 footer and we were comfortable in it. After all, we won't be throwing parties or dancing. We just want a place to eat, sleep and poop when we aren't visiting tourist traps,er ... I mean tourist attractions.

Andy

[kknowlton]

Hi-Los seem to have been well built. My main concern with them is that they are now orphans; the company is out of business. Another similar type design with a company that is still in business is Trailmanor. You pull the top parts up manually but springs help make it fairly easy - that's my understanding. (Haven't tried it personally). Another concern about both brands is the expense - they are pricier per square foot than "regular" travel trailers or popups. Otherwise, possibly a good choice for a smaller tow vehicle. (Lack of storage noted.)

Never think of an RV as a financial investment; they all depreciate, and unlike cars, with a few exceptions (Airstream is one), the really old ones aren't worth more as antiques. They are an investment in vacation enjoyment, family time, enjoying nature, seeing the country, and making lasting memories.

[travelandy]

Thanks guys - sorry - my mistake. I should have caught that distinction and didn't. The payload capacity on this model and year Pathfinder is just under 1,100 lbs. With my wife and myself and our luggage, etc., I think I should be OK up to around a 3,500 lb trailer provided the tongue weight sits at around 350 lbs but I'm looking for something closer to 2,500 or 2,800 lbs to leave a certain amount of "maneuvering room" so that I'm not overly straining the TV. What I will need to do is to find out the tongue weight of the TT I am looking at. The HiLo info that I got from the NADA RV guide shows very different weights for the HiLo's in that length for different years and no mention of tongue weights. Weights for the 21 foot model range from 2,600 lbs to 3,600 lbs depending on the year. Not sure why there is such a variance.

Andy

[westend]

Andy,
The reason I mentioned the payload rating is that all too often folks new to towing a travel trailer with an SUV start shopping trailers and when they see what's available in the larger sizes, Queen beds, full baths, bunk rooms for the kids, the list goes on....They soon discover that their trailer "wants" evceeds the carrying capacity of the vehicle. This happens a lot.
As long as you keep your "wants" towards the smallish side, you shouldn't have an issue. Good luck and happy trailering!

[rbpru]

If your tongue weight and TV load are within the TV's max cargo rating you should be fine.

Some older Hi-Lo were heavy so be sure to check that out.

The problem with collapsible trailers is storage, particularly for clothing.

Others features the DW and I prefer are, a bed that does not require crawling over
each other to get out of, bathroom accessible without set up.

Staring with an inexpensive used unit you can afford is a smart move. RVs are not a very good financial investment.

[BarneyS]

Andy,
Westend was not talking about towing capacity. He was talking about payload capacity which is a very different thing. I might be a good idea to pay some attention to what he said. 🙂
Barney

[travelandy]

Bear II, thanks for the info. Given our financial outlook, I suspect that this is as much as we will be spending. Besides, it's not as if we have a growing family, so if it works for us than that will be fine. If not, then there may be a lot of TV viewing in our retirement picture.

Andy

[camp-n-family]

westend wrote:

Small SUV's don't make great tow vehicles. The payload capacity of that vehicle is around 1000 lbs. The hitch weight of a 3000 lb travel trailer will be in the neighborhood of 600 lbs., ...


I think you've confused the Pathfinder with something else. If you note in my post, the Pathfinder with the automatic tranny (Which I have) has a rated towing capacity of 5,000 lbs and a max tongue weight of 500 lbs. Going with a trailer that has a factory weight of 3,500 lbs or less should leave me with a reasonable "safety margin" once it's loaded up.

Andy

What he's getting at is that you need to check your payload rating (door jamb sticker). Most smaller vehicles will max out on payload before coming anywhere near its tow rating.

If you have a loaded trailer weight of 3500lbs you can figure on approximately 500lbs for tongue weight and the weight of the hitch itself. That counts directly towards you available payload. If your payload is 1000lbs you would have 500lbs left for passengers and stuff in the vehicle. If that's enough, then you should be good to go. If you plan to carry 4 heavy adults, a couple of dogs, and a trunk full of beer, then it won't be good.

[travelandy]

Campfire Time wrote:

Bumpyroad wrote:
I thought HiLos were heavy units.
bumpy

They are heavy for what they are, and compared to pop-ups. But light in comparison to a full height travel trailer. The advantage is that you could tow one that's closer to your max because you don't have the frontal area to slow you down.

That's what I found attractive about it. Once lowered, the frontal area would be roughly around that of a larger popup style trailer. And from what I have read on this forum so far, the drag of a full height trailer can be as much (Or more) of a strain on the tranny and on gas mileage than the additional weight - at least at highway speeds. In stop and go or in the mountains, it would be a different story as the weight would have more effect than the wind resistance. My main concern (Other than the usual potential problems with an older trailer) is how reliable is the mechanism for raising and lowering the trailer.

Andy

[travelandy]

westend wrote:
Small SUV's don't make great tow vehicles. The payload capacity of that vehicle is around 1000 lbs. The hitch weight of a 3000 lb travel trailer will be in the neighborhood of 600 lbs., ...

I think you've confused the Pathfinder with something else. If you note in my post, the Pathfinder with the automatic tranny (Which I have) has a rated towing capacity of 5,000 lbs and a max tongue weight of 500 lbs. Going with a trailer that has a factory weight of 3,500 lbs or less should leave me with a reasonable "safety margin" once it's loaded up.

Andy