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Fixing AC polarity issues.

msiminoff
Explorer II
Explorer II
I acknowledge that many of you will never have the need to do a modification like this one to your TC. If you only connect to mains power at your home or at an established RV park, you will most likely be connecting to a correctly wired (30A) electrical outlet.

However, in my case, I never-ever stay in RV parks or campgrounds and I get my AC power when and where I can find it. In addition, my TC's mains power cord has been modified and now has a NEMA 5-15 plug on it, rather than a traditional 30A RV plug. For example' A few weeks ago it we stayed at a rustic site at Lake Santa Margarita park (near San Luis Obispo, CA,) and last week we camped at a private summer camp near Guernville, CA... at both locations the electrical outlets ware incorrectly wired with a hot/neutral reverse. As it turns out, about one-third of the places where I choose to use mains power the outlets are incorrectly wired, and my beeping inverter and AC circuit tester are quick to point out the problem to me.

For the past year or so I have been remedying the issue by manually re-wiring a small jumper-cord between the outlets and my mains plug. However I have finally had enough of this wiring and re-wiring and I decided to fix the issue in a way that was easiest for me.... So I installed a 20A double-pole double-pole switch (in place of my previous single-pole-single throw switch) so that I can now correct polarity issues from inside the TC. In addition, I installed an AC polarity tester at the switch location so that I can verify polarity before closing the switch.

Here's a few photos of the install:


Switch is a Hubbel HBL1386I


Drilling switch wall plate to accept neon indicator lamps


Indicator lamps installed


Circuit board assembly


Final switch and polarity indicator assembly. Switch UP is normal polarity and Switch DOWN corrects a hot/neutral reverse condition. The center position is off.



Of course this type of polarity test lamp cannot test for all wiring issues. For example, it cannot detect a bootleg ground (nor a reverse bootleg ground), but that is a much more uncommon situation than a hot/neutral reverse or a floating neutral/ground.


Cheers,
-Mark
'04 Alpenlite Saratoga 935, 328W of solar, 300Ah Odyssey batt's, Trimetric, Prosine 2.0
05 Ram3500, Cummins,Vision 19.5 w/M729F's, Dynatrac Hubs, RR airbags w/ping tanks, Superhitch, Roadmaster Swaybar, Rancho RS9000XL
The Overlhander Blog
14 REPLIES 14

Cannon_George
Explorer
Explorer
This is a great project. Note that the switch specified Hubbel HBL1386I is "Center off," this provides the "break before make" closure (otherwise you might see sparks fly!)

I learned once the hard way that Norcold refrigerators won't work properly on AC if the hot/neutral leads are reversed - another reason to support this project if you encounter this condition with AC......

2oldnslow
Explorer
Explorer
RickW wrote:
msiminoff wrote:
Gripnriprod wrote:


Another solution might be to carry a well marked reverse polarity extension cord about 1 foot in length. Deploy only when needed.


I like that idea! ๐Ÿ™‚

I have not seen reversed polarity (yet), but then I seldom plug in.
2005 GMC 2500HD
1998 Lance 845
320AHr Battery Bank
400W Solar Array
Morningstar ProStar 30 PWM Controller
NovaKool R5810 5.8cf 12VDC Refridgerator (best mod ever!)

bigfootford
Nomad II
Nomad II
Added this to my todo camper bucket list.... Nice mod!

I always check shore power plugs prior to plugging in....
Only seen a problem of reverse polarity one time.... I went around to the empty sites to check. Went to the office and told them.... They probably never did anything about it...

Thanks for the IDEA!

Jim
2000 2500 9.6 Bigfoot,94 F250, Vision 19.5, Bilstein shocks, air bags/pump, EU2000, PD 9260, Two Redodo 100ah Mini's, Aims 2500 Conv/Inv, 200W. solar, Morningstar Sunsaver 15A/ display panel, Delorme/laptop for travel, Wave-3 heat.

azrving
Explorer
Explorer
msiminoff wrote:
RickW wrote:
A concern I have is the ease of access to your switch. If I were a curious 12 year old, I would flip the switch to see what happened.

My 10 year old son know's what the switch does, he understands AC and DC polarity, and he can interpret the indicator lamps using the little chart above the switch.
IF he ever did flip the switch (he won't, but I might accidentally), nothing would happen... except the inverter/charger would beep-beep-beep indicating that the hot/neutral were swapped.

rjxj wrote:
1/3 of the places seems like a surprisingly large number. Do you trust their water?
Yep, it's shocking how often I encounter this. But again, I don't stay in campgrounds.

NO! I don't trust the water! As a matter of fact I'm far more vigilant about where I take on water than where I get ac power.

-Mark


I seldom plug in so power isn't an issue but I started using a Berkey filter when I considered how many places I get water from. Things get wired wrong, things get plumbed wrong.

msiminoff
Explorer II
Explorer II
RickW wrote:
A concern I have is the ease of access to your switch. If I were a curious 12 year old, I would flip the switch to see what happened.

My 10 year old son know's what the switch does, he understands AC and DC polarity, and he can interpret the indicator lamps using the little chart above the switch.
IF he ever did flip the switch (he won't, but I might accidentally), nothing would happen... except the inverter/charger would beep-beep-beep indicating that the hot/neutral were swapped.

rjxj wrote:
1/3 of the places seems like a surprisingly large number. Do you trust their water?
Yep, it's shocking how often I encounter this. But again, I don't stay in campgrounds.

NO! I don't trust the water! As a matter of fact I'm far more vigilant about where I take on water than where I get ac power.

-Mark
'04 Alpenlite Saratoga 935, 328W of solar, 300Ah Odyssey batt's, Trimetric, Prosine 2.0
05 Ram3500, Cummins,Vision 19.5 w/M729F's, Dynatrac Hubs, RR airbags w/ping tanks, Superhitch, Roadmaster Swaybar, Rancho RS9000XL
The Overlhander Blog

RickW
Explorer III
Explorer III
msiminoff wrote:
Gripnriprod wrote:
So, where in the circuitry did you place the DPDT switch?

The DPDT switch is in the mains cord... before the inverter/charger. The circuit tester is wired to the input of the switch, so it will indicate an issue prior to me turning it on.

Yes of course, this does mean that I am responsible for placing the switch in the center (OFF) position prior to plugging in the cord to mains power, but this is still a big improvement over the setup I previously had.

Here's a simplified wiring diagram;


It was not apparent to me at first that your switch had a neutral position, but electrical is not my native language.

A concern I have is the ease of access to your switch. If I were a curious 12 year old, I would flip the switch to see what happened. :E

Another solution might be to carry a well marked reverse polarity extension cord about 1 foot in length. Deploy only when needed.
Rick
04 GMC 1500 4X4X4, 04 Sunlite SB

azrving
Explorer
Explorer
1/3 of the places seems like a surprisingly large number. Do you trust their water?

Gripnriprod
Explorer
Explorer
Thanks for clarifying this. With every mod like this there are a set of "operating instructions". Again, a great mod.
'11 GMC 3500hd SLT DRW D/A 4x4 Spray-in, Air Bags w/comp & controls, TL, Superhitch, 48" Supertruss, 9.5t Warn, front rcvr, Fox Shocks, '11 AF 1140, DB, AC, Gen, Solar, Thermal Windows, Wardrobe, Rear & Side Awnings, 18' Lund/40hp Honda 4 stroke

msiminoff
Explorer II
Explorer II
Gripnriprod wrote:
So, where in the circuitry did you place the DPDT switch?

The DPDT switch is in the mains cord... before the inverter/charger. The circuit tester is wired to the input of the switch, so it will indicate an issue prior to me turning it on.

Yes of course, this does mean that I am responsible for placing the switch in the center (OFF) position prior to plugging in the cord to mains power, but this is still a big improvement over the setup I previously had.

Here's a simplified wiring diagram;
'04 Alpenlite Saratoga 935, 328W of solar, 300Ah Odyssey batt's, Trimetric, Prosine 2.0
05 Ram3500, Cummins,Vision 19.5 w/M729F's, Dynatrac Hubs, RR airbags w/ping tanks, Superhitch, Roadmaster Swaybar, Rancho RS9000XL
The Overlhander Blog

Gripnriprod
Explorer
Explorer
So, where in the circuitry did you place the DPDT switch? The instant you plug in you will have a current path to your camper's equipment unless you have placed the camper A/C isolation switch in the "off" position. Or am I missing something?

BTW, what a great idea and nice execution!
'11 GMC 3500hd SLT DRW D/A 4x4 Spray-in, Air Bags w/comp & controls, TL, Superhitch, 48" Supertruss, 9.5t Warn, front rcvr, Fox Shocks, '11 AF 1140, DB, AC, Gen, Solar, Thermal Windows, Wardrobe, Rear & Side Awnings, 18' Lund/40hp Honda 4 stroke

msiminoff
Explorer II
Explorer II
that is why I always use a multi function surge protector.
bumpy
Yep, surge protectors are useful (I do have one, and it is how I have discovered the mains wiring issues in the past), but the best they can do is indicate that there is a problem... unfortunately, they cannot remedy it.

The double-pole double-throw switch (when wired as a reversing circuit) can effortlessly correct a hot/neutral reverse wiring condition.



Victory402 wrote:
Great upgrade Mark. Did you simply hack an outlet tester to get your parts for the neon lights to work?

Yes, I used the circuit board from an off the shelf outlet tester... but I changed the neon lamps for ease of installation and because I wanted to use green in place of the amber ones.
'04 Alpenlite Saratoga 935, 328W of solar, 300Ah Odyssey batt's, Trimetric, Prosine 2.0
05 Ram3500, Cummins,Vision 19.5 w/M729F's, Dynatrac Hubs, RR airbags w/ping tanks, Superhitch, Roadmaster Swaybar, Rancho RS9000XL
The Overlhander Blog

bobndot
Explorer II
Explorer II
Funny, I was just thinking about this . "What would I do if " .......

Nice job as well as a great idea .



Thanks Mark , problem solved , I can take my nap now .

Bumpyroad
Explorer
Explorer
that is why I always use a multi function surge protector.
bumpy

Victory402
Explorer
Explorer
Great upgrade Mark. Did you simply hack an outlet tester to get your parts for the neon lights to work?