Ford Exp - Jayco WH 23MBH - Dream Combo or Bad Idea?

Hello,

I am considering purchasing a TV/TT combination and allowing for budget constraints and family size have narrowed the choice down to 1 TV and 2 TTs. We missed the whole young family camping/RVing window and so now are attempting this activity with 4 boys, 2 of them older teenagers and 2 of them almost teens. This poses certain problems, the least of which is that not everyone can sleep in the dinette, at least not without a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth. But I digress…

I've read a number of posts here but most were regarding 1/2 ton PUs, which seem to have a higher tow rating than their SUV counterparts. I did find one post from PSMike, Towing with Ford Expedition - think I am OK?, that was quite eye opening ( http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/24894612/srt/pa/pging/1/page/1 ). I've been around cars and trucks and have busted up a number of them, usually out in the middle of the desert, so I understand the consequences of breaking vehicles. I have no interest in sheering off axle bolts, etc, or having the TT guide me into a bridge abutment because I pulled a bit too much. So, here's the drop on the TV and TT for context:

TV:
2007/2007 Ford Expedition 4x4, 5.4L sparkplug eating V8
Max Towing - 8600 lbs with Heavy Duty Tow Package
Max WDTW - 900 +/-

TT:
Jayco White Hawk 23MBH

Unloaded Vehicle Weight (lbs)
4,610
Dry Hitch Weight (lbs)
645
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (lbs)
6,500
Cargo Carrying Capacity (lbs)
1,890

Jayco White Hawk 30DSQB

Unloaded Vehicle Weight (lbs)
6,045
Dry Hitch Weight (lbs)
765
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (lbs)
8,250
Cargo Carrying Capacity (lbs)
2,205

I know the first TT is a bit small but so is my budget. I'd prefer to go with the second TT but it is not 1/2 ton tow-able.

Based on the numbers of the Ford Exp and the 23 MBH I believe this combination could work. Because I have four almost grown boys, a wife, and a dog, there's not much room in the vehicle for cargo based on what I have read previously. I also think I'll be pushing 700 to 1000 lbs cargo in/on the trailer, including propane, batteries, etc. That puts the trailer at 5600 lbs + 7900ish for the truck et al = 13,500lbs which is darn close to the MAX 14,100 combined gross. Hitch Weight would be around 760 lbs (645 + 15% of cargo) . The weights are under but not by much. So, questions…

1) Does the combination of Ford Expedition and 23MBH work or do I need to ditch the 1/2 ton SUV dream and consider a 1/2 ton crew cab with a front bench or a 3/4 ton burb (assuming I can get one of those…they are, as other posters have noted, hard to come by)?

2) Moving to TT number 2, I will need a 3/4 ton to pull this, correct?

I appreciate the extra eyeballs of experienced RVes, especially as I have so many numbers and combinations floating around in my head. Thanks for any and all input.

Tow Vehicles

15 Replies

audincli9
Explorer
Mar 14, 2014
Hey All That Posted From Feb 7th Forward...

I agree with what has been said about the Expo, Excusion, and Burb. The comment regarding the fleet vehicles and comfort level made me think again about the type of vehicle. Although I have driven bare bones trucks, that doesn't mean it would be fun for all. Need to think about that one. At this point I just need to find a suitable Ex or Burb in my price range. I really appreciate all the feedback from all the posters to my thread. Thanks and if anything significant changes I will update you all.
JJensen79
Explorer
Feb 16, 2014
I had an expo and a 34' trailer. As someone said earlier on paper it is a capable SUV, in reality it is not a great combo and made for some interesting trips. I also have four kids so I started looking at 3/4 ton suburban a and excursions. We ultimately chose the Excursion and couldn't be happier. We ended up going this route because we had a hard time finding 3/4 ton suburbans and we wanted a diesel.
The Excursion is huge and we have no problem fitting everyone and everything in it. If you want one with a diesel check out all of the forums and research the problems associated with the 6.0 diesel, or look at one with a 7.3 diesel. All of the Excursions have the same suspension and can be upgraded to make it stiffer than stock (many forums on this as well).
rowekmr
Explorer
Feb 15, 2014
To the OP I think the 23' trailer will be a comfortable fit for the Expedition. I think the 30' would be too much, not necessarily in length (my opinion) but in the payload of the Expedition. I had a 03 Navigator (similar to yours) and set it up to tow my TT and I had to move most of the stuff in the front storage to the rear and even remove the front propane tanks to keep the tongue weight within limits (used scale) and that was with 2 adults and one child in the vehicle. I did that for a few very short trips and it was stable but not something that I would tow across country. If you are dead set on that 30' I do recommend the Excursion or Suburban 2500 also if you need a suv. I have towed my 31' with 2 Excursions (V10 & 6.0L) and older Suburban 2500's with the 7.4L and they were all capable vehicles. As one suggested I would also consider a van if that suits your needs. I tried a E350 van which has plenty of payload capacity and room for what you want but I sold it because preferred a 4x4 platform (and didn't have Quigley money).
krobbe
Explorer
Feb 07, 2014
The JaycoWhiteHawk30DSQB with quad bunks will give everyone their own space. Priceless.
The 8.1L 2500 Burb will tow it AND carry everyone easily. I have similar weights and am very happy with the performance.
intheburbs
Explorer
Feb 07, 2014
Personally, I think the Suburban 2500 is vastly superior to the Excursion...EXCEPT...if the Excursion is a 2005 (upgraded suspension) and a diesel. Of course, then you're looking at $25-$30K for the Ford.

Be patient regarding the 2500 Burbs. They're few and far between, but there are good ones out there, especially if you're willing to travel.

Like this one you could get for ~$12K.

I think you'll find the fleet models to be somewhat lacking in comfort and convenience features (as well as sound deadening materials). They might not be ideal for long road trips.
audincli9
Explorer
Feb 07, 2014
Well,

I've narrowed the truck choice down to the 3/4 ton Suburban and the Ford Excursion. I found two burbs, both former fleet vehicles, with the 8.1L engine and 3.73 axles. One has 104K miles and the other has 142K miles. Both have rubber flooring which DW is not to enthused about..which is understandable if your going to be traveling all over place. Good for the dog hair too...Price is 9K and 14K...not too bad.

Have not found an Excursion I can actually afford...yet.
audincli9
Explorer
Feb 01, 2014
@houseoffools - There is one other manufacturer that makes the Murphy bed but I can't remember which one. I have all of the brochures from the Atlanta RV show a couple of weeks ago so I will go through them and see if I can find the manufacturer and report back. The Exp should have no issues with the 23 MBH. Based on what I have read/learned in at this site, just pay attention to tongue/hitch and cargo numbers. I think it will be a tight fit with four kids...but I think it's doable though. I spent 7 years just north of the Mojave Desert...dirt biking, four wheeling...that's a fun area.

Also, to those who are interested, I did a search for Chevy and GMC 2500 series SUVs and came up with a handful in the south east (TN, SC, NC, and GA). Two look promising with the 8.1L V8 (up to 11,000 lbs when properly equipped). I also looked at the Excursion but that truck is so darn big...it is a fall back though. I need to read the posts on Gas vs. Diesel next...
houseoffools
Explorer
Jan 31, 2014
I am in the same boat as you...2005 Expedition, four growing kids, two dogs. Was originally looking at TT's in the 29-30' range, but I just don't feel comfortable towing that big. I would love to get another tow vehicle but for various reason I think I will wait a couple years. The Jayco 23MBH is actually on my short list, but seems a little pricey. Have you seen any other brands with the murphy bed option?
audincli9
Explorer
Jan 31, 2014
Hello All,

Thank you for the posts and second pair of eyeballs. Here's what I have gleaned thus far from your responses:

1) The 23MBH and the Ford Expedition, or any 1/2, will work. I still can't shake the feeling that it's too close, but maybe that's just from taking in too much info in a short time.

2) The 30DSQB is not happening with a 1/2 ton. I'll check into 3/4 and 1 ton type vehicles and see what is out there.

@rexlion - agree on the longer trailer. I towed my IH Scout I with my Toyota SR5 extended cab like 15 years ago...that was a white knuckle ride!

@azwildcat99 - boy do I have kids, four boys...not sure what privacy is...

@APT - Thanks for the sticker photo. I've seen you talk about that sticker before and I will definitely make note of it during our search. I am not opposed to the 3/4 or 1 ton vehicle and will start checking out what is there in our price range.

@RoyB - Love the tent trailer. I would go with the largest I could get if it weren't for a small philosophical difference with the DW on what a trailer is for. I am looking for the camping/nature experience and she is for the more comfortable sightseeing experience. I am attempting to find that balance.

@Terryallan - it would appear that is the case...now I have to decide how realistic I'm being with fitting even 3 out of 4 boys, DW, and I in that space. I know that camping/sightseeing can be done mostly out doors so it would work for me...question is does it work for kids/DW...stay tuned.

@mbutts - I agree that the current state of 1/2 SUVs is just short of ridiculous. They went from being something you could work with to the grocery store hauler. If I only ever do 2 or 3 day trips close to home the 1/2 ton could work...but if we get more aggressive then we will outgrow the 1/2 tone quickly. Again, I will look at 3/4 and 1 ton vehicles as well before I make a final decision.

Thank you all for your help and experience.
mbutts
Explorer
Jan 31, 2014
When I went from a 4,400 lbs. TT to a 7,400 TT (yes, still well within limits of Expy, used a Cat scale and tongue scale to balance the load), I felt very unsafe in my Expedition.

The independent rear suspension and passenger car tires made the back end way too wiggly for me. With coil over shock suspension, I couldn't add airbags. I toyed with putting truck tires on, but decided spending more still wasn't going to fix the basic problem of being at the very edge of my payload rating.

You have two more nearly-adult-sized people than I have so you'll be pushing the payload limit even more.

I cannot express how much better towing with a HD pickup is over the Expy. Even with with the lighter trailer, I never felt at ease towing with the Expedition. It's nice not having to use strap on tow mirrors or an add on brake controller, too.