Forum Discussion

pray's avatar
pray
Explorer
Jan 12, 2015

GCWR and Tongue Weight

HI, I'm looking to purchase a truck and haul up to a 15,000+lbs trailer as a fifth wheel.

I would like to know if the GCWR is truly the ultimate weight that is the combined Curb weight of the truck + the loaded weight of the trailer?

Or is the factor that matters solely the tongue weight not exceeding the GVWR?

I've seen so many trucks seemingly hauling massive loads and yet those number contradict the manufacturers weight ratings.

Any help to educate me on the topic is appreciated.
Tow Vehicles
  • tinner12002's avatar
    tinner12002
    Explorer
    Jan 13, 2015
    I would think that all should be watched and not exceeded. GCWR is listed by the manufacturers for a reason, trans performance, braking ability all are combined together to set the GCWR. GVWR so as to not exceed the weight rating of you axles on your truck or RAWR.
  • JIMNLIN's avatar
    JIMNLIN
    Explorer III
    Jan 13, 2015
    I would like to know if the GCWR is truly the ultimate weight that is the combined Curb weight of the truck + the loaded weight of the trailer?

    A GCWR number is a rating number. Truck curb weight + loaded trailer weight is a GCW number.
    The truck makers GCWR can be any weight he chooses.
    GCWR is not on a sticker or placarded on your truck anywhere and has no legal usage.

    Or is the factor that matters solely the tongue weight not exceeding the GVWR?

    Tongue weight rest on the trucks rear axle/tires (RAWR). That is the factor on any truck for how much weight it can carry.
    GVWR is another number that isn't used in any legal sense for how much load your truck can carry. However some folks use the GVWR for how much load on the axle/tires their truck can carry. RAWR or GVWR are both certified and both can be used for figuring payloads.

    I've seen so many trucks seemingly hauling massive loads and yet those number contradict the manufacturers weight ratings.

    Any help to educate me on the topic is appreciated.

    I don't know what you saw nor could I guess at any weights just by looking but trucks carry weight determined by the axle/tire load rating. Some states may use a GVWR for tax purposes or for registering for a tag/etc. However my state as others have no weight registration. In the case of a GN/5th wheel trailer we can carry weight up to the top of the RAWR/tire ratings.
    I generally tell new folks to the towing world to talk with your state motor vehicle size and weight officer. They can tell you which numbers are used.
  • mdamerell's avatar
    mdamerell
    Explorer
    Jan 13, 2015
    If you are looking at a 15,000# 5er you will have a pin weight of 20% plus or minus a little so a 15,000# trailer means you will put 3,000# give or take, into the bed of the truck. So if you add people, gear, firewood, fuel what ever in the truck you still need to have 3,000# of cargo capacity left for the trailer. So I'd say look for a truck with a cargo capacity of 4,000# minimum.

    Since trucks normally run out of cargo capacity before they run out of towing capacity this will probably simplify your search.

    Also know that after 2004 the truck ratings took a jump so a 2005 truck has a higher rating than a 2004 and the new trucks are in a whole new class.
  • rhagfo's avatar
    rhagfo
    Explorer III
    Jan 12, 2015
    lanerd wrote:
    pray wrote:
    HI, I'm looking to purchase a truck and haul up to a 15,000+lbs trailer as a fifth wheel.

    I would like to know if the GCWR is truly the ultimate weight that is the combined Curb weight of the truck + the loaded weight of the trailer? No..it's not. The GCWR is a "rating", not the actual weight. Typically, the GCWR is the GVWR of the truck plus the "towing capacity" rating of the truck. However, the GCW (actual weight) is as you mentioned above. I think this is what you meant.

    Or is the factor that matters solely the tongue weight not exceeding the GVWR? No, not directly. The pin weight of a 5ver should not exceed the "available payload" rating of the truck. The truck's "factory" payload rating is derived from the truck's GVWR and the curb weight. However, to figure the "available" payload rating you add the total of whatever is in the truck (you, passengers, equipment, hitch, tools, etc subtracted from the truck's factory payload rating. In other words, if the truck's factory payload rating is 4000 lbs, and you have 1500 lbs of the items mentioned above, then the pin weight of the 5er cannot exceed the difference....in this example, 2500 lbs. So, you first need to get your truck weighed so you know its actual curb weight as it may not be what the factory said it is. Accessories and options can play a big part in this determination.

    Any help to educate me on the topic is appreciated.


    Correction on the GCVWR it is the total of the Curb weight of a stripper model of the truck, and the Max tow rating of that TV. Thus as the weight of the TV goes up the max you can tow goes down. More of a concern about getting going and hill climbing at a reasonable speed.

    GVWR, is the Max the the TV should have on it's wheels. While a valid rating sometimes is is based on tax law! I feel more important than GVWR is GAWR of the rear axle, and the weight capacity of the tires.
    I am over GVWR, but well under both GAWR.
  • lbrjet's avatar
    lbrjet
    Explorer
    Jan 12, 2015
    I guess I misunderstood your question. Yes, typically the GCWR is the base weight of the truck (not the GVWR as the previous poster said) plus the maximum tow rating. The pin weight affects the GVWR of the truck. Any weight you put in the truck (passengers, gear, fifth wheel hitch) subtracts from the tow rating pound for pound since it adds to the base weight of the truck.
  • lanerd's avatar
    lanerd
    Explorer II
    Jan 12, 2015
    pray wrote:
    HI, I'm looking to purchase a truck and haul up to a 15,000+lbs trailer as a fifth wheel.

    I would like to know if the GCWR is truly the ultimate weight that is the combined Curb weight of the truck + the loaded weight of the trailer? No..it's not. The GCWR is a "rating", not the actual weight. Typically, the GCWR is the GVWR of the truck plus the "towing capacity" rating of the truck. However, the GCW (actual weight) is as you mentioned above. I think this is what you meant.

    Or is the factor that matters solely the tongue weight not exceeding the GVWR? No, not directly. The pin weight of a 5ver should not exceed the "available payload" rating of the truck. The truck's "factory" payload rating is derived from the truck's GVWR and the curb weight. However, to figure the "available" payload rating you add the total of whatever is in the truck (you, passengers, equipment, hitch, tools, etc subtracted from the truck's factory payload rating. In other words, if the truck's factory payload rating is 4000 lbs, and you have 1500 lbs of the items mentioned above, then the pin weight of the 5er cannot exceed the difference....in this example, 2500 lbs. So, you first need to get your truck weighed so you know its actual curb weight as it may not be what the factory said it is. Accessories and options can play a big part in this determination.

    Any help to educate me on the topic is appreciated.
  • lbrjet's avatar
    lbrjet
    Explorer
    Jan 12, 2015
    Gross combined weight has nothing to do with pin/tongue weight. Hook up your trailer/fifth wheel and go to the CAT scales. Add up the weight on all of the axles. This is your gross combined weight.
  • Dakota98's avatar
    Dakota98
    Explorer
    Jan 12, 2015
    pray wrote:
    I would like to know if the GCWR is truly the ultimate weight that is the combined Curb weight of the truck + the loaded weight of the trailer?


    Curb weight - NO

    GCWR = A vehicle's GCWR is a specific weight determined by the manufacturer to be the maximum weight of a "LOADED" tow vehicle and its attached "LOADED" trailer.
  • fj12ryder's avatar
    fj12ryder
    Explorer III
    Jan 12, 2015
    The first thing to remember is that some people, probably including the ones "hauling massive loads" pay no attention to any of the ratings, except (maybe) the RAWR.

    I try to stay within the GVWR, but don't pay a lot of attention to the GCWR. The GCWR can change simply by having different rear end gear ratios. I'm not going to go crazy, but I figure if I'm pretty close I'm okay.
  • jrp's avatar
    jrp
    Explorer
    Jan 12, 2015
    All of the manufacturers ratings apply individually & collectively. If you're trying to comply you can't exceed any. The combined weights, the GVWR including the pin weight, the axle ratings and the tire ratings, all must be monitored and complied with.
    Which one is likely to be the controlling factor (first exceeded) depends on your specific truck and loads. for single rear wheel trucks hauling a heavy 5'er, its usually the GVWR that limits you, since the loaded weight of the truck plus the pin weight of the RV usually exceeds the GVWR before it gets close to exceeding the axles or GCWR, especially with the extra weight of a diesel engine or 4x4 option. The GWVR is usually less than the sum of the 2 axle ratings, since the weakest link in the chain determines the rating value.

    You see lots of overloaded trucks on the roads because not everyone pays attention to these ratings. some just don't care, some think its ok if you're within 20%; some think its ok to exceed GVWR as long as you don't exceed the axle rating. everyone has their opinion and you'll hear a wide range of them here. go to any official source and its clear the intention is to require all of these ratings to be complied with.

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