Is a higher TT GVWR better?

[outwestbound]

If a travel trailer's load (all my cargo, liquids, batts, LP, etc.)PLUS dry trailer weights were hypothetically say 8,200lbs for two TTs I'm considering, but the GVWR on one was 9800 and the other 11,000, wouldn't the higher GVWR be the safest? Ignoring cost, wouldn't the TT with the highest GVWR, even if I don't need to put more cargo in it, essentially be safer due to stronger brake system?

[Bumpyroad]

outwestbound wrote:
Thanks for the info!! These discussions are helpful in focusing in on where I need to learn more about the mechanical aspects of TVs and TTs. Although I haven't used it much (more a finance guy), I have a general contractor's license in Florida so I grasp what's being discussed. But, I'm generally clueless about towing, travel trailers and tow vehicle mechanical aspect; but not for long.

As a newbie looking to buy a TV and TT (or fifth wheel), a big mystery is what my******(food, clothing, household wares, utility items, etc.) will weigh. Not counting batts, fluids, LP, is there any general rule for what a couple would load into a 35 foot TT? We backpack overnight a lot, so we're used to going light. We're not pack rats. We each have a bike (aluminum and carbon fiber), but really no other "atypical" stuff, so is there an average figure I may use in my calculations?

the usual or common figure tossed about is around 1,000 to 1,500 lbs. of "stuff". your selection may of course vary.
bumpy

[outwestbound]

Thanks for the info!! These discussions are helpful in focusing in on where I need to learn more about the mechanical aspects of TVs and TTs. Although I haven't used it much (more a finance guy), I have a general contractor's license in Florida so I grasp what's being discussed. But, I'm generally clueless about towing, travel trailers and tow vehicle mechanical aspect; but not for long.

As a newbie looking to buy a TV and TT (or fifth wheel), a big mystery is what my******(food, clothing, household wares, utility items, etc.) will weigh. Not counting batts, fluids, LP, is there any general rule for what a couple would load into a 35 foot TT? We backpack overnight a lot, so we're used to going light. We're not pack rats. We each have a bike (aluminum and carbon fiber), but really no other "atypical" stuff, so is there an average figure I may use in my calculations?

[Lowsuv]

regarding f150 vs f250 :
F250 has 4 very large disk brakes .
While at the tire store you can observe the significant difference in size of the calipers and the disks of the f250 vs f150 .
While checking these rigs on the rack compare the size of the rear axle "bajo" of the F250 vs the punier F150 .
Take a look at the universal joints and the size of the driveline while you are doing the comparison . Once again F250 .
The size of the frame is larger on the F250 also .
The rear axle payload of the F250 is significantly higher on the F250 .
This allows one to load the tongue weight up on the trailer being towed .
Higher tongue weight eliminates trailer sway .
The F150 has a more limited payload and the trailer tongue cannot be loaded as heavy . This makes for a higher percentage of uncontrolled weight behind the trailer axle . This adds to sway .
The f150 might have the lighter weight eco-boost engine . This takes weight off of the steering wheels of the F150 .
The F250 is frequently sold with a diesel engine . This adds 400+ pounds to the front end weight over a V8 gasser . Possibly 600 more pounds on the front end than a V6 in the F150 .
For towing it is always better to tow a 7000 # trailer with a pickup that weighs 7000# rather than a pickup that weighs 6200 # .

[AH64ID]

brulaz wrote:


But not sure what you mean by "the lower you are under axle rating the more work a brake system may be to dial in as the drum brakes are meant for more weight". The brakes on those 5200# axles are 12". It's true I haven't yet been able to lock them up on pavement, but they do bring the truck to a halt quickly. Maybe they just need to be adjusted ...

Mine needed adjusting right off the bat, there was a 17-20 click difference on a few.

I have the opposite problem, mine lock very easy. I run my controller on a gain of 15 out of 99.

[brulaz]

ah64id wrote:
Check the axles on the lighter GVWR, maybe they are the same as the higher one. Not all companies base GVWR on axle rating +tongue weight (thou I know many do).

My TT has a 7,900lb GVWR, with a pair of 5200lb axles and 10,160 worth of tires. The 8" frame and tongue design are all on the 10K + design, but only 7900 GVWR.

One thing I didn't see anyone else mention is the lower you are under axle rating the more work a brake system may be to dial in as the drum brakes are meant for more weight. It's not bad once dialed in, but more adjusting at first.

My Timber Ridge is similar. Coming from a "light-weight" trailer where you always had to watch the trailer GVWR and GAWR is a relief.

But not sure what you mean by "the lower you are under axle rating the more work a brake system may be to dial in as the drum brakes are meant for more weight". The brakes on those 5200# axles are 12". It's true I haven't yet been able to lock them up on pavement, but they do bring the truck to a halt quickly. Maybe they just need to be adjusted ...

[AH64ID]

MM49 wrote:
Someone screwed up. I looked at your specifications and they match perfectly a 10,000 GVW trailer???? You could change the stickers on it and it would match in form the same as my Sunnybrook.
MM49

They claim they overbuild all their trailers for offroad use, hence the lower GVWR than what the components can handle.

I blew right thru the 7900 GVWR and run in the 8200-8500 range on most trips and don't think twice about it on this trailer.

I have noticed that as the model years progress my model camper keeps adding a little to the GVWR without a frame/suspension change. The dry weight goes up a little and the GVWR is 1750lbs heavier.

I am shocked I have around 2K lbs of stuff in my camper, as they claim dry weight is "full feature" and I have no options just standard stuff. I haven't reweighed it this year with a full camping load and my heavier batteries, but will soon.

Last time I weighed the camper unhooked it was 1250 on the tongue, and 7040 on the axles loaded for camping. I have had trips with ~200lbs more on the axles.


How do you change the stickers? Is it "official"?

[MM49]

ah64id wrote:
Check the axles on the lighter GVWR, maybe they are the same as the higher one. Not all companies base GVWR on axle rating +tongue weight (thou I know many do).

My TT has a 7,900lb GVWR, with a pair of 5200lb axles and 10,160 worth of tires. The 8" frame and tongue design are all on the 10K + design, but only 7900 GVWR.



One thing I didn't see anyone else mention is the lower you are under axle rating the more work a brake system may be to dial in as the drum brakes are meant for more weight. It's not bad once dialed in, but more adjusting at first.

Someone screwed up. I looked at your specifications and they match perfectly a 10,000 GVW trailer???? You could change the stickers on it and it would match in form the same as my Sunnybrook.
MM49

[mich800]

Francesca Knowles wrote:

mich800 wrote:

So take a loaded half ton crew cab and a single cab bare bones one ton truck. Curb weight close to each other but the one ton has a much higher GVWR. So you are saying the one ton in this scenario is statistically safer than the half ton. We are not talking towing or loading anything more then what the original question posed.

Who cares what the "safety margin" is, they are both safe.

I don't understand what makes an unloaded one ton "statistically safer" than a loaded half ton.

I apologize. Loaded=options, not cargo. I said to to compare the two trucks that had similar curb weights.

[Francesca_Knowl]

mich800 wrote:

So take a loaded half ton crew cab and a single cab bare bones one ton truck. Curb weight close to each other but the one ton has a much higher GVWR. So you are saying the one ton in this scenario is statistically safer than the half ton. We are not talking towing or loading anything more then what the original question posed.

Who cares what the "safety margin" is, they are both safe.

I don't understand what makes an unloaded one ton "statistically safer" than a loaded half ton.

[mich800]

Lowsuv wrote:
YES
I used that criteria to find my current trailer , purchased new 12 years ago .
it has a 7280 # GVW on the axles but was placarded 4900 # empty on the axles .
It came with a 6 inch tall frame not a 5 or 4 inch .
It is a 21T Komfort .
Empty weight on the tongue is 480 # .
The 50 gallon water tank is in the front as is a huge storage space under the walk around bed .
I frequently have 900 + pounds on the tongue .
It tows wonderfully because I have the capacity to put heavy stuff in front .
Heavy stuff behind the trailer axle is uncontrolled weight and adds to sway .
Heavy stuff in front of the trailer axle mitigates sway .
The same thing applies to tow vehicles .
The best F150 is not as good as the worst F250 for towing .
Payload, Baby ..........

I think me and JJBIRISH are on the same page. Maybe a little different semantically but close.

I was using the truck example just for illustration purposes, not what can tow more. I still read the question: two vehicles the same approximate actual weight but different GVWR which is safer?

So take a loaded half ton crew cab and a single cab bare bones one ton truck. Curb weight close to each other but the one ton has a much higher GVWR. So you are saying the one ton in this scenario is statistically safer than the half ton. We are not talking towing or loading anything more then what the original question posed.

Who cares what the "safety margin" is, they are both safe.

[canoe_on_top]

Higher CCC would suggest heavier duty components. Tires, axles, suspension, frame, which would, logically, seem safer as you would not be running as close to maxing out everything. Some TTs are close to GVW empty. On the other hand, it depends some on how the GVW was calculated. My TT has a GVW of 11,700. The same TT a few years later was rated at 10,400. The later rating was the total of the two 5200lb axles. The earlier rating included tongue weight which, in this case is heavy, (12-1300lbs). According to the sticker, the UVW is 7860. Same TT, different way of figuring GVW. Even funnier, the higher rating came with 15" load range D tires, (16" E rated were an option. Around the time they lowered the GVW, they also went to the 16" E range wheels and tires as standard. Looking at the brochure from one year to the next, there is no indication of how the GVW was calculated, it's just different.

[Lowsuv]

YES
I used that criteria to find my current trailer , purchased new 12 years ago .
it has a 7280 # GVW on the axles but was placarded 4900 # empty on the axles .
It came with a 6 inch tall frame not a 5 or 4 inch .
It is a 21T Komfort .
Empty weight on the tongue is 480 # .
The 50 gallon water tank is in the front as is a huge storage space under the walk around bed .
I frequently have 900 + pounds on the tongue .
It tows wonderfully because I have the capacity to put heavy stuff in front .
Heavy stuff behind the trailer axle is uncontrolled weight and adds to sway .
Heavy stuff in front of the trailer axle mitigates sway .
The same thing applies to tow vehicles .
The best F150 is not as good as the worst F250 for towing .
Payload, Baby ..........

[AH64ID]

Check the axles on the lighter GVWR, maybe they are the same as the higher one. Not all companies base GVWR on axle rating +tongue weight (thou I know many do).

My TT has a 7,900lb GVWR, with a pair of 5200lb axles and 10,160 worth of tires. The 8" frame and tongue design are all on the 10K + design, but only 7900 GVWR.



One thing I didn't see anyone else mention is the lower you are under axle rating the more work a brake system may be to dial in as the drum brakes are meant for more weight. It's not bad once dialed in, but more adjusting at first.

[JIMNLIN]

op says wrote:
Ignoring cost, wouldn't the TT with the highest GVWR, even if I don't need to put more cargo in it, essentially be safer due to stronger brake system?

Brakes on any RV trailer is a function of the GAWRs and not the GVWR. So to answer your concern about brakes on the two trailers choose the one with the larger GAWRs. Now some of the higher end RV trailers have used the sum of the axle rating as the trailers GVWR as most commercial trailers.

However generally speaking the larger GVWR trailer can have a more robust frame/suspension.

IMO there is no generic answer to your question as much depends on the actual frame/running gear in use.