Just bought a Duramax

[Vintage465]

So I just got me a 2013 Duramax and was wondering if anyone has installed any of the Banks products. I was talking with Banks and there are really only three performance items: the intake, the exhaust and the programmer. The Banks rep said there are no performance numbers for the intake or the exhaust. I would like to know if someone has installed either of these products and how they improve the general driving and economy. I doubt if I will go with a programmer as I only pull a 24 foot trailer.

Thanks,

[Lantley]

Grit dog wrote:

transferred wrote:
Some will disagree, but tuners are for kids or people who don't rely on their truck. Keep it stock. Just my 0.02

I disagree, but if I had a stock 900ftlb Ram sitting in my driveway I probably wouldn't have bumped up my 07! Lol.

It is discussion like the above that give pause to adding a tuner of any kind. The tuners can be more trouble than they are worth

[6_6_Oilburner]

N-Trouble wrote:

6.6 Oilburner wrote:

N-Trouble wrote:

6.6 Oilburner wrote:

Helmsey wrote:

N-Trouble wrote:
I have a 2012 Dmax (same truck) and am pretty up on modding options. No disrespect but you'll get more educated responses on the Dmax forum.

DPF back exhaust does nothing for performance or sound. It's simply a fancy $400 exhaust tip. As for their CAI some users report little to no change while others report improved throttle response and slightly better mileage. S&B intake is also very popular and is offered with a dry filter.

As for tuning, any tuning whether emissions intact or delete will void your powertrain warranty. Many who tune go the delete route as it does improve mileage as well as eleminates the horrible dead pedal feel these trucks have in stock form. The emissions components in these trucks are by far the most problematic/temperamental so deleting can in affect give you a more reliable truck. If your going to tune however the overwhelming preference is to use an EFI Live based tune and stay away from canned tuners such as Banks, Edge, Hypertech, or H&S. You can get both emissions intact or emissions delete EFI Live tunes.

Living in CA does make it tougher to go the delete route as you would have to put back to stock every 2yr if registered in a SMOG county.

EFI Live is the way to go with Duramax, no question.
Check out "Idaho Rob" and what he is doing with an LML with emissions:
Clicky

The problem with emissions present tuning is that it more times than not shortens DPF life and increases regen. Tuners not offering delete tunes will usually not make light of this.

This is true for canned tuners but not necessarily EFI Live based emissions intact tunes. Both Duramax tuner and ATP offer tunes that are as clean or cleaner than stock. Users report Regen frequency similar to stock.

If you plug/support Duramax tuner, I can't take you seriously. Top notch marketing and lack luster tuning. Not to mention the connecting rod fiasco he never made all the victims whole on.

I had this discussion about emissions present tuning with my tuner, when he released his LML autocals. Anything over a small bump is probably going to cause shorter spans between regens.

Sorry I don't have the background on the connecting rod issue you speak of. All I can say is I have seen a lot of good reviews of his emissions intact tuning on the Duramax Forum. I could go pull the large number of testimonials but don't really have the time. He's considered a top option for emissions intact on 2011+ trucks and was the first EFI Live vendor to offer tunes. He's obviously figured something out as owners have been reporting for 3+ years now same or even less frequent regens when running his Sport/Econ tune. Drive it hard all the time and yes regens will come more often.

You can try and find some info on the connecting rods, but you won't. You'll find a reference or poke here and there. But Nick being a paid vendor on most of the forums, he got any info removed. As I suspect he does with any negative feedback.

I used duramax tuner for a while when I first go into these trucks. After consistent issues of the same nature with different trucks I got sick of hearing "There isn't a problem with our tuning, you have a hard part going bad on the truck"

[Grit_dog]

transferred wrote:
Some will disagree, but tuners are for kids or people who don't rely on their truck. Keep it stock. Just my 0.02

I disagree, but if I had a stock 900ftlb Ram sitting in my driveway I probably wouldn't have bumped up my 07! Lol.

[N-Trouble]

Vintage465 wrote:
So I got a ton of great info here but I need to state my reasons for asking these questions. I am not "looking for power". I think pulling a 24" trailer @ 5200 pounds this dude shouldn't need more power. What I was thinking is making the engine more efficient and better. I was thinking, if a Banks Ram Air system could lower EGT by forcing more enriched oxygen into the intake then that would be something I could justify. If the better intake provided better mileage that would be cool too. I know I would not really get a payback on my investment in any short amount of time, but one must remember, I keep my vehicles for a minimum of 15 years. Regarding the exhaust, the only thing I am looking for with that is to get rid of the gigantic and exceeding ugly exhaust tailpipe. I can't really believe someone at GM got done with that tailpipe and said, "there...that's workable and nice looking too"! So my reasoning is better flow for cooler exhaust temps and more efficiency if that comes along with it.....and gosh the ugly exhaust pipe!

thanks,

All the backpressure in the exhaust is in the CAT and DPF. Putting a DPF back exhaust on does nothing for flow... Its just a pretty $400 exhaust tip. You could do the same for a lot cheaper at a local muffler shop but you still need to keep the stock venting. There is a reason the stock tip is so ugly as it aids in cooling the extremely high temps which occur during regen.

Here is a good thread on some exhaust tip options that retain factory cooling http://www.duramaxforum.com/forum/2011-lml-performance-parts-discussion/137033-no-more-ugly-tip.html

[N-Trouble]

6.6 Oilburner wrote:

N-Trouble wrote:

6.6 Oilburner wrote:

Helmsey wrote:

N-Trouble wrote:
I have a 2012 Dmax (same truck) and am pretty up on modding options. No disrespect but you'll get more educated responses on the Dmax forum.

DPF back exhaust does nothing for performance or sound. It's simply a fancy $400 exhaust tip. As for their CAI some users report little to no change while others report improved throttle response and slightly better mileage. S&B intake is also very popular and is offered with a dry filter.

As for tuning, any tuning whether emissions intact or delete will void your powertrain warranty. Many who tune go the delete route as it does improve mileage as well as eleminates the horrible dead pedal feel these trucks have in stock form. The emissions components in these trucks are by far the most problematic/temperamental so deleting can in affect give you a more reliable truck. If your going to tune however the overwhelming preference is to use an EFI Live based tune and stay away from canned tuners such as Banks, Edge, Hypertech, or H&S. You can get both emissions intact or emissions delete EFI Live tunes.

Living in CA does make it tougher to go the delete route as you would have to put back to stock every 2yr if registered in a SMOG county.

EFI Live is the way to go with Duramax, no question.
Check out "Idaho Rob" and what he is doing with an LML with emissions:
Clicky

The problem with emissions present tuning is that it more times than not shortens DPF life and increases regen. Tuners not offering delete tunes will usually not make light of this.

This is true for canned tuners but not necessarily EFI Live based emissions intact tunes. Both Duramax tuner and ATP offer tunes that are as clean or cleaner than stock. Users report Regen frequency similar to stock.

If you plug/support Duramax tuner, I can't take you seriously. Top notch marketing and lack luster tuning. Not to mention the connecting rod fiasco he never made all the victims whole on.

I had this discussion about emissions present tuning with my tuner, when he released his LML autocals. Anything over a small bump is probably going to cause shorter spans between regens.

Sorry I don't have the background on the connecting rod issue you speak of. All I can say is I have seen a lot of good reviews of his emissions intact tuning on the Duramax Forum. I could go pull the large number of testimonials but don't really have the time. He's considered a top option for emissions intact on 2011+ trucks and was the first EFI Live vendor to offer tunes. He's obviously figured something out as owners have been reporting for 3+ years now same or even less frequent regens when running his Sport/Econ tune. Drive it hard all the time and yes regens will come more often.

[6_6_Oilburner]

N-Trouble wrote:

6.6 Oilburner wrote:

Helmsey wrote:

N-Trouble wrote:
I have a 2012 Dmax (same truck) and am pretty up on modding options. No disrespect but you'll get more educated responses on the Dmax forum.

DPF back exhaust does nothing for performance or sound. It's simply a fancy $400 exhaust tip. As for their CAI some users report little to no change while others report improved throttle response and slightly better mileage. S&B intake is also very popular and is offered with a dry filter.

As for tuning, any tuning whether emissions intact or delete will void your powertrain warranty. Many who tune go the delete route as it does improve mileage as well as eleminates the horrible dead pedal feel these trucks have in stock form. The emissions components in these trucks are by far the most problematic/temperamental so deleting can in affect give you a more reliable truck. If your going to tune however the overwhelming preference is to use an EFI Live based tune and stay away from canned tuners such as Banks, Edge, Hypertech, or H&S. You can get both emissions intact or emissions delete EFI Live tunes.

Living in CA does make it tougher to go the delete route as you would have to put back to stock every 2yr if registered in a SMOG county.

EFI Live is the way to go with Duramax, no question.
Check out "Idaho Rob" and what he is doing with an LML with emissions:
Clicky

The problem with emissions present tuning is that it more times than not shortens DPF life and increases regen. Tuners not offering delete tunes will usually not make light of this.

This is true for canned tuners but not necessarily EFI Live based emissions intact tunes. Both Duramax tuner and ATP offer tunes that are as clean or cleaner than stock. Users report Regen frequency similar to stock.

If you plug/support Duramax tuner, I can't take you seriously. Top notch marketing and lack luster tuning. Not to mention the connecting rod fiasco he never made all the victims whole on.

I had this discussion about emissions present tuning with my tuner, when he released his LML autocals. Anything over a small bump is probably going to cause shorter spans between regens.

[jus2shy]

Vintage465 wrote:
So I got a ton of great info here but I need to state my reasons for asking these questions. I am not "looking for power". I think pulling a 24" trailer @ 5200 pounds this dude shouldn't need more power. What I was thinking is making the engine more efficient and better. I was thinking, if a Banks Ram Air system could lower EGT by forcing more enriched oxygen into the intake then that would be something I could justify. If the better intake provided better mileage that would be cool too. I know I would not really get a payback on my investment in any short amount of time, but one must remember, I keep my vehicles for a minimum of 15 years. Regarding the exhaust, the only thing I am looking for with that is to get rid of the gigantic and exceeding ugly exhaust tailpipe. I can't really believe someone at GM got done with that tailpipe and said, "there...that's workable and nice looking too"! So my reasoning is better flow for cooler exhaust temps and more efficiency if that comes along with it.....and gosh the ugly exhaust pipe!

thanks,

You're not going to find a "Cooler" exhaust pipe than OEM. Many of the aftermarket have their pipes with venturi vents cut in them, but none of them mix as much fresh air with the exhaust to drop the tailpipe temps as much as the OEMs (This applies to Ford and GM products, RAM doesn't have venturis in their exhaust). But yes, I have to agree that GM products of the 2007 to 2014 exhaust are pretty ugly. They've done a nice job with the current trucks of cleaning up that exhaust system's looks.

As for the tuning, if you put in more oxygen into the engine, you're going to get more NOx out of it. This is assuming you don't plan on removing emissions. So any aftermarket tune that reduces EGR mixing and puts more fresh air into the air charge will cause the emissions to use more DEF to tamp down NOx emissions. Just another thing to think about. Also, aftermarket tunes seem to put out more soot due to more fuel enrichment to increase power levels. So that tends to lead to more regeneration events and counter-intuitively more fuel being burned due to regeneration.

In fact (again, assuming you're keeping all the emissions), you will want to keep the higher EGT's coming out of your engine as you want to have as many "Passive" regeneration events as possible. This greatly reduces fuel usage. My RAM will average about 23 to 25 mpg on a cruise to the coast and back (250 miles round trip and hand-calculation verified). What really ups the fuel usage on OEM tuned vehicles are stop and go drive cycles, where you don't keep the exhaust hot. Then soot keeps building up and the system eventually needs to burn all that soot out there somehow (hence "Active regeneration").

Hope this helps.

[Vintage465]

So I got a ton of great info here but I need to state my reasons for asking these questions. I am not "looking for power". I think pulling a 24" trailer @ 5200 pounds this dude shouldn't need more power. What I was thinking is making the engine more efficient and better. I was thinking, if a Banks Ram Air system could lower EGT by forcing more enriched oxygen into the intake then that would be something I could justify. If the better intake provided better mileage that would be cool too. I know I would not really get a payback on my investment in any short amount of time, but one must remember, I keep my vehicles for a minimum of 15 years. Regarding the exhaust, the only thing I am looking for with that is to get rid of the gigantic and exceeding ugly exhaust tailpipe. I can't really believe someone at GM got done with that tailpipe and said, "there...that's workable and nice looking too"! So my reasoning is better flow for cooler exhaust temps and more efficiency if that comes along with it.....and gosh the ugly exhaust pipe!

thanks,

[ktmrfs]

N-Trouble wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:
we had a 04.5LLY with 315 HP and now have a 2015 with the 397HP. We tow a 10,000lb trailer over the rockies. Do I notice the extra 75HP? slightly. does it make any difference in towing? not really. even the 04.5 was capable of holding the speed limit, or safe speed on any climbs I did with power to spare.

Personally, I wouldn't do anything

How does the mileage compare towing the same load? Bet the 2015 feels a lot more capable towing with the improved frame, brakes, suspension and exhaust brake over the older model.

towing mileage is virtually the same. still pushing a barn door through the air.

Unloaded highway is better by over 1mpg. with the 2015 I can average 20mpg on a 750 mile trip over the rockies between portland and central montana. the 04.5 was usually 18, maybe 18.5

towing wise, both are very comparable. Yes, the exhaust brake is the most noticeable difference. Otherwise the 2015 is much quieter, more refined features, but handling wise both are very very capable. And finally the short box comes with a 36 gallon fuel tank instead of the 24 gallon. Also has several inches more rear leg room,

and even though the 2015 has an 800lb higher GVWR, it actually only gained about 300lbs in payload, like us, the truck has put on some weight over the years!!

[N-Trouble]

rhagfo wrote:
My first question is WHY??
Stock you should be checking your mirrors to make sure the light weight TT is still back there!!! Max GVWR of that TT is 6,200#

I tow a 11,000#+ 5er with a 2001 Ram/Cummins with less than 280 HP and do great. The new diesels should be fine stock! Think about the effect on your transmission!!!

Again, not everyone tunes newer trucks for power. Many want to rid themselves of the problematic emissions components. That's WHY...

[rhagfo]

My first question is WHY??
Stock you should be checking your mirrors to make sure the light weight TT is still back there!!! Max GVWR of that TT is 6,200#

I tow a 11,000#+ 5er with a 2001 Ram/Cummins with less than 280 HP and do great. The new diesels should be fine stock! Think about the effect on your transmission!!!

[N-Trouble]

6.6 Oilburner wrote:

transferred wrote:
Some will disagree, but tuners are for kids or people who don't rely on their truck. Keep it stock. Just my 0.02

I disagree. My 07.5 LTZ with Built trans, 40% over injectors and Compound turbo setup was the ultimate tow rig and never gave me a lick of trouble other than nickel and dime 100k mile vehicle issues.

Yeah bad assumption. MANY are tuning the newer trucks because they want to RELY on their trucks but the problematic emissions components are not allowing them to do that.

[N-Trouble]

DustyR wrote:

N-Trouble wrote:
I have a 2012 Dmax (same truck) and am pretty up on modding options. No disrespect but you'll get more educated responses on the Dmax forum.

DPF back exhaust does nothing for performance or sound. It's simply a fancy $400 exhaust tip. As for their CAI some users report little to no change while others report improved throttle response and slightly better mileage. S&B intake is also very popular and is offered with a dry filter.

As for tuning, any tuning whether emissions intact or delete will void your powertrain warranty. Many who tune go the delete route as it does improve mileage as well as eleminates the horrible dead pedal feel these trucks have in stock form. The emissions components in these trucks are by far the most problematic/temperamental so deleting can in affect give you a more reliable truck. If your going to tune however the overwhelming preference is to use an EFI Live based tune and stay away from canned tuners such as Banks, Edge, Hypertech, or H&S. You can get both emissions intact or emissions delete EFI Live tunes.

Living in CA does make it tougher to go the delete route as you would have to put back to stock every 2yr if registered in a SMOG county.

X-2

Tuning voids your engine warranty.

Voids your "powertrain" warranty, not just engine.

[N-Trouble]

6.6 Oilburner wrote:

Helmsey wrote:

N-Trouble wrote:
I have a 2012 Dmax (same truck) and am pretty up on modding options. No disrespect but you'll get more educated responses on the Dmax forum.

DPF back exhaust does nothing for performance or sound. It's simply a fancy $400 exhaust tip. As for their CAI some users report little to no change while others report improved throttle response and slightly better mileage. S&B intake is also very popular and is offered with a dry filter.

As for tuning, any tuning whether emissions intact or delete will void your powertrain warranty. Many who tune go the delete route as it does improve mileage as well as eleminates the horrible dead pedal feel these trucks have in stock form. The emissions components in these trucks are by far the most problematic/temperamental so deleting can in affect give you a more reliable truck. If your going to tune however the overwhelming preference is to use an EFI Live based tune and stay away from canned tuners such as Banks, Edge, Hypertech, or H&S. You can get both emissions intact or emissions delete EFI Live tunes.

Living in CA does make it tougher to go the delete route as you would have to put back to stock every 2yr if registered in a SMOG county.

EFI Live is the way to go with Duramax, no question.
Check out "Idaho Rob" and what he is doing with an LML with emissions:
Clicky

The problem with emissions present tuning is that it more times than not shortens DPF life and increases regen. Tuners not offering delete tunes will usually not make light of this.

This is true for canned tuners but not necessarily EFI Live based emissions intact tunes. Both Duramax tuner and ATP offer tunes that are as clean or cleaner than stock. Users report Regen frequency similar to stock.