Lippert Frame? - Coachmen Apex

[wibigfoot]

Through reading a number of topics here I find more people not a fan of Lippert frames than those that are.

We narrowed down the RV to a Coachmen Apex and the sales rep stated they use a Lippert frame on them.

All that's going through my head is to stay away from them but I have no reason to why other then what people say here.

So run away or don't worry about it?

[wincrasher65]

Don't worry, with a Coachman Apex, the frame will be the least of your troubles. LOL.

[Lynnmor]

I was at the York, PA RV show on Sat. There was a trailer there that had a bumper held in place by the paint. The welds were totally porous. Another had steps that were detached on one side were ready to drop to the ground. The quality of what was there has gotten worse, if that is possible.

[myredracer]

If they really have improved welding in recent years, I hate to think what Lippert's welding was like before that. I know that problems with Lippert frames are still occurring and the TT manufacturers and Lippert have not changed anything.

I had a frame & axle shop that is a government designated inspection facility inspect the frame on a previous 2013 TT we owned. They said the welds on the Lippert frame were absolutely terrible. This frame is the one that has I-beams made from 3 pieces of 1/8" mild steel welded together that *looks* like a regular forged I-beam. These allow an excessive amount of side to side movement of the spring hangers which causes metal fatigue in the vertical web of the I-beams right above the spring hanger and other problems from the high amount of frame flex. The frame shop told me it's a case of when you will find frame cracks, not if. As I mentioned previously, this frame can be found on a number of makes and models of ultra-lites.

One problem with frames is the total lack of any codes, standards or regulations for the design and construction of them. No ASME, no SAE, no nothing. No specs or data of any kind on Lippert's website (compare to something like say, Alko's website). Lippert can produce frames however they want without having to answer to anyone. If you are one of the unfortunate ones to have a problem, Lippert tends to blame the owner and you have no recourse of any kind. Unfortunately, Lippert frames are on something like 95% or more of TTs.

When it comes to the more commonplace forged I-beams, some designs are better as they have gussets above the spring hangers and/or 2x2 tubing below the I-beams for re-enforcement. If someone is interested in frames, going to a show is a good idea as you can crawl under all the TTs and see the differences. The fabricated I-beams are easy to spot just by reaching down and running a finger along the I-beam.

mileshuff wrote:
I tend to think there are many many times more Lippert frames on the road than any other brand. The vast majority have no issues. Lippert did take significant steps in improving welds several years ago. My own Winnebago 5'er was made in the old Sunnybrook plant and uses a Lippert frame. Construction appears excellent. No issues.

[mileshuff]

I tend to think there are many many times more Lippert frames on the road than any other brand. The vast majority have no issues. Lippert did take significant steps in improving welds several years ago. My own Winnebago 5'er was made in the old Sunnybrook plant and uses a Lippert frame. Construction appears excellent. No issues.

[mosseater]

When I went out to SunnyBrook a few years back, I had frame complaints about spring hanger mounting. Very poor accuracy of location and welds were not acceptable. I was directed by the folks at Sunnybrook to the local facility where the frame was made, and hoping to get a tour and talk to someone there about quality, I called the factory. I did manage to talk to the facility manager, and though he was sorry about my troubles, he told me they are not set up to give tours, so that wasn't going to happen. During our talk on the phone, he described in detail the manufacturing process whereby they inaccurately weld the spring hangers on, and that told me everything I needed to know about why quality was so poor. He also admitted he doesn't own a trailer and doesn't give much attention to the subject of camping/towing!

That said, the newer Lippert frames I saw during our Sunnybrook tour actually looked very good. Apparently, they all make junk at various points in their process to one degree or another. Might pay to look at the actual unit you're going to buy beforehand if at all possible. First you have to know what you're looking at, and not everybody does. Lots of people have no issues with Lippert frames. I was not one of them. It cost me over $400 to align the trailer by moving spring hangers that they should have gotten right at the factory. Lesson learned.

[ScottG]

Lippert frame issues seemed to have died off some time ago. I wouldn't let it keep me from buying a RV I like.

[myredracer]

You might want to look for TTs that use the Bal Ultraframe. Not many out there there that I know of. Lance uses them and I think the Jayco Whitehawk has them. You could always call Norco Industries and ask them. Nash and Outdoors RV (owned by Nash) use their own heavy duty in-house built frame. If I were to do it all over again, I'd buy something that has other than a Lippert frame. Yes, Lippert does make a weak frame that is used on some ultra-lites (it's an "ultra-flexible" frame) and prone to cracking and other issues. I have seen this frame on 5 or 6 makes/models.

[azrving]

Any of them can have problems depending on what they are subjected to. I think someone said the new frames have the reinforcement plates in the areas that they were cracking.

cracks

Repairs

[downtheroad]

The only problem use to be some Lippert frames on 5th wheels around the pin box area...
Haven't heard much about that for a couple of years now...

....and, as stated Lippert supplies many many thousands of frames. Normally folks don't post about how HAPPY they are with their frame.

[Lynnmor]

Lippert makes quite a variety of frames from scrap to good. I happen to have a scrap one that cracked in four places in a few thousand miles. I tried to tell a fellow camper with an identical unit, but he refused to even bend over and look.
Be sure that you never buy a frame that has been constructed with a three piece fabricated "I-beam".

[SoundGuy]

Huntindog wrote:
I really don't know what all the fuss is about.

Same here. I've got a 2014 Coachmen Freedom Express 192RBS and haven't had any frame issues, at least none that I know of. This particular model has an open underbelly and I've been under there quite a few times for one reason or the other and haven't spotted anything that would concern me at all. This spring I'll no doubt be under there again as I'd like to paint the frame, as I've done with any previous trailer I've owned, but I'm not expecting to see any problems.

[MWJones]

I'll bet you that most RV owners don't have any ideal what frame is under their unit!! I have owned a 2003 and a 2008 Keystone trailer - the number one selling manufacture in the world - and they use Lippert frames - 10s of thousands of them. What does that tell us!!
Just Saying....
It's like tires - some people swear by brand X. On the other hand, some people will curse brand X.
You deside.

[enblethen]

Lippert was, not sure if they still are, making two styles of frames.
One uses I or H beams, the other uses stamped sheet metal.
There website indicates they only use I beams and tubular steel. I didn't see any stamped steel indications.
Lippert Frames

[Huntindog]

I really don't know what all the fuss is about.
I have had 3 TTs. The first one had a very heavy metal. The welds were very bad looking... But it held up well with no problems.. No idea who made it< The axles were Dexter, so that may have been thr frame as well. My second TT was new. A 2001 Fleetwood Wilderness. The welds were better looking on this one, but it did need a couple of repairs over the years. No weld failures, but stress cracks and spring Hangers breaking off. Since I weld, I was able to make it better than new myself.
My present TT is a 2010 Palomoino Sabre. It has Lippert frame and axles. It is by far the best of the three. The welds look first class, and it has been absolutly trouble free.

There has been talk that the TT manufacturers spec the frame,,, and some will cut corners in the specs to make it cheaper. Perhaps that is why mine is so flawless..
Or maybe like anything else, people tend to complain about a problem when it crops up, but not say anything when it doesn't. I doubt that most people that haven't had an issue have any idea who made their frame. And since Lippert is the largest manufacturer by far, it stands to reason that their will be more problems...

The only thing I can advise is to look at the manufacturers for frame troubles on the units they make, rather than the manufacturer of the frame.. Some brands seem to have more issues than others.. That tends to point to the first scenario I mentioned as having some validity.

And generally speaking many frame problems are pretty easy to fix if you can weld. If not, then it can be fixed for a price.. There are many other problems that would cause me to lose sleep first.