Mercedes XCLass

[RobertRyan]

Will be interesting too what they want to do with this. Competition is now the Amarok according too MB. That has now 254hp and 420lbs ft of torque. Japanese are being a little bit agitated. Would not be surprised too see the Japanese bring out a well specked suitor.
Mercedes was released today in Australia

[RobertRyan]

gmw photos wrote:
The poster that said: "rebadged Nissan Navara", this is correct. There is an interview with some manufacturer reps on the web that explains the relationship between Nissan and MB on this project.

To Robert Ryan, hey man, I enjoy your posts and seeing pics from down-under, but you are incorrect when you say the new design Navara ( Frontier to us ) is different in size to the "old style" ( 2005 to current ) Frontier.

I have and still drive a 2006 Frontier. I just went to the garage and got out my sales brochure from 2006 and compared the dimensions and specs to a "new" Australia spec Navara. All dimensions are within an inch. In some cases my old version is actually slightly larger than the new.

They are basically the same vehicle, with different powertrains (y'all get stuck with slow-azz small diesels, we get gas motors ) and different sheetmetal.

To the guy that said the rear overhang is too long for good towing, he obviously has not towed with one. I've towed over 50K miles ( my 19' TT or my horse trailer ) behind my Frontier, and it does very well indeed.

Back on topic, I suspect the new MB version will be a niche market product. They'll sell a few, just like Ford sells "a few" of the Lincoln badged F150's. There are always a few folks willing to pay extra for something a bit more unique and expensive.

Do not know where you got your information but Nissan poured a lot of money into the Navara which does not share anything..It will be the basis of the MB Class X but will have a different frame and body pAnels. I can tell you it is physically a lot bigger than the old model.
Nissan has FIVE factories globally making the Navara. It has no relation too your Frontier
Gas ( Petrol) engines were ditched.. Toyota has retired it’s 4 litre V6 none was buying it.

[RobertRyan]

Hard to format the previous post satisfactorily Yes I agree you have little man syndrome., accept that other parts of the world are not great fans of US Pickups. Even Canada from my experience has a different vehicle mix than the US I explained how manufacturing disappeared in Australia US owners did not allow exports from Australia, exchange rate was awful and vehicle tastes were changing, the perfect storm in manufacturing terms.Toyota very much wanted to stay but the supply chain disappeared.
I will say it again. US HD Pickups are non existent outside NA( Yes Mexico is part of NA) I would have no problems if I had the money buying a Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini you name it from the Showroon. US Pickup 1/2 Ton and HD forget about it
From recent memory a lot of commotion was made about US manufacturers shifting production from the US( they still are)
As far as “ tough “ vehicles go ask the Japanese. They are doing well in the US for their reliability and at one stage Toyota was in front of Ford. Toyota is the biggest seller here by far.

[RobertRyan]

soren wrote:
Seems to be serious case of "little man" syndrome, coupled with an utter lack of comprehension of how global economics works.

It's a bit disappointing actually. If Mr Ryan had the self discipline required to provide his excellent pics. (even if they are cut and paste) and interesting commentary on how RVs, trucks, and SUVs are utilized in Australia, while resisting the urge to act like a toddler, kicking ankles in a room full of adults, it would actually make for a good read.

The American Market is a place where Ford can't build their largest SUV fast enough to meet demand, sells them for $80k, and makes margins that are the envy of the global marketplace. All domestic manufacturers are producing high volumes of large pickups that are selling at prices never dreamed of a few short years ago, with average retail up $15K USD and more, recently.

The Australian market is a place where domestic passenger manufacturing is no longer a viable option. Ford, Toyota, and GM have all abandoned their production facilities there. The silliness of claiming that any global manufacturer is incapable of success, marketing large pickups in Australia, since they are not "tough enough" is ludicrous. It's all about making the right decisions in the global marketplace. When your North American operations are making record margins on hundreds of thousands of pickups a year, closing car plants and dropping product to make room for MORE production capacity for SUVs and pickups, there is no reason to plague your global enterprise by trying to sell a few thousand vehicles in a country that is so insignificant that it no longer capable of sustaining it's once thriving domestic manufacturing. Doing so is the kind of thing that gets regional directors fired for making poor decisions.
Yes I agree you have little man syndrome.. I explained how manufacturing disappeared. US owners did not allow exports from Australia, exchange rate was awful and vehicle tastes were changing,. Toyota very much wanted to stay but the supply chain disappeared.
I will say it again. US HD Pickups are non existent outside NA( Yes Mexico is part of NA) I would have no problems if I had the money buying a Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini you name it from the Showroon. US Pickup 1/2 Ton and HD forget about it
From recent memory a lot of commotion was made about US manufacturers shifting production from the US( they still are).,
Bottom line, Mr Ryan? You can be a valuable contributor here, but it's time to drop the BS. Vehicles arrive in your country in cases where they can be produced on a global platform and are profitably marketed in countless countries. They are nothing special, and found all over the world. Claiming that they are tough, desirable, or "special" since some global enterprise feels that they can make a profit, loading them on a boat, destined for Australia, is some pretty delusional stuff.

[RobertRyan]

Grit dog wrote:

RobertRyan wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
Well, all I can say is I'm sorry you don't have the ability to run bigger, more capable, more powerful pickups. Guess I'll consider myself lucky I live on a continent that I can have a little truck OR a big truck. Becasue I do things with my pickup that the pint size ones can't.

We have bigger more powerful trucks that can do a lot more than your Pickup can. Apples too apples.Remember up too 2007 they used too sell the 7.3 litre Diesel F250-350’s in Australia, . .,I would be concerned about the fact that as Soundguy and others have noted in the past, that HD Pickups do not exist outside the US.( I notice you run a 3/4 ton)Of all the Pickups sold in the US , you would think the HD Superduties would have a market outside the NA, being mostly diesels

So do we......surprisingly as that may be to you. I thought when you needed to pull a big load you called some other blokes with some other utes and chained them all together like a wagon train! Lol
I’m not sure yet what you’re arguing about. You think big trucks suck because little ones do it better, or you got dumped by a chick that drove a F250 once so you hate them? Which is it?
Wait........I know........you’re not ready to admit that you’re jealous of OUR trucks because the little utes you call 1 tonnes couldn’t pull a sick kangaroo off a pile of kiwi!!
Hahahahahaa

If anyone was jealous they would be buying them. I am jealous of someone who owns a Porsche, Ferrari etc. More Porsche’s are sold in Australia ( in fact a lot of Porsche’s) than US Pickups. They and other upmarket luxury vehicles and sports cars have dealerships in every state of Australia. There are no dealerships for US Pickups in Australia

[RobertRyan]

soren wrote:

RobertRyan wrote:

Dayle1 wrote:

RobertRyan wrote:

If the US manufacturers want to sell Globally( Hedge against a downturn, excess vehicles in stock) They would have too see what Pickups if any can be sold directly from the factory too overseas locations, without much modification. Japanese do this rather well

Your "if" is totally incorrect. US manufacturers don't need to sell trucks in Australia. In the NA market, trucks generate the most profit $$. Other truck markets are too small with extra costs that would have a negative impact on profits. US manufacturers are looking for a larger share of large markets (like China) and the type of vehicles that those markets want, which isn't HD trucks. You said it yourself, Australia is a very diverse market that is also small. It isn't a key part of their strategy which is maintaining their strength in the NA truck market while trying their best to compete in large emerging car markets.

No if the market stalls, then a reserve or new market is required. Nissan is or was going to too do it with their Titan XD. they were looking at Russia, Australia, Mid East as potential markets

Nissan’s global boss of commercial vehicles, Ashwani Gupta, says the company is looking at producing the Titan full-size pickup truck for markets outside of North America, including right-hand drive (RHD) countries such as Australia.

Sales of Nissan’s Ford F-Series rival are up more than 200 per cent this year, with more than 40,000 units sold. Some of these buyers are apparently pinched from the Ford, or other rivals such as the Ram 1500/2500, Chevrolet Silverado and Toyota Tundra, but some are also existing Nissan SUV owners or those upsizing from the Navara.

You do realize that even though the Titan's 40K would be a GIANT number for Australia, it is less than HALF of the number of F-150 sold LAST MONTH, in the states. Since you provide helpful info. about your country, let's take a minute to learn about mine. Nissan USA is somewhere between a bit player, and a non-event here. I would bet that a significant percentage of our citizens are unaware that Nissan even produces a full sized pickup, even though they have been flailing at the attempt for fifteen years now. Spreading 40K units over this vast country amounts to 800 per state. Which puts them in Unicorn territory. I live in a densely populated area. I can drive for days and never pass a Titan. I also have never seen one used for any commercial purpose, other than the occasional one pulling a small trailer with a lawn mower, that may or may not be owned by a very small time landscape contractor. Here Nissan is Know for less than great cars, CTVs that continually fail, and finding financing for customers that can barely fog a mirror. Believe me, if Nissan decides to build RHD Titans for the Australian market, don't get too excited. It's a third class product that will make Aussie buyers long for the Fords they no longer have access to.

Not large numbers for Australia either. Going by your logic, Ford US should be designing the next Ranger and the current Transit Van. They have done neither,

[Grit_dog]

RobertRyan wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
Well, all I can say is I'm sorry you don't have the ability to run bigger, more capable, more powerful pickups. Guess I'll consider myself lucky I live on a continent that I can have a little truck OR a big truck. Becasue I do things with my pickup that the pint size ones can't.

We have bigger more powerful trucks that can do a lot more than your Pickup can. Apples too apples.Remember up too 2007 they used too sell the 7.3 litre Diesel F250-350’s in Australia, . .,I would be concerned about the fact that as Soundguy and others have noted in the past, that HD Pickups do not exist outside the US.( I notice you run a 3/4 ton)Of all the Pickups sold in the US , you would think the HD Superduties would have a market outside the NA, being mostly diesels

So do we......surprisingly as that may be to you. I thought when you needed to pull a big load you called some other blokes with some other utes and chained them all together like a wagon train! Lol
I’m not sure yet what you’re arguing about. You think big trucks suck because little ones do it better, or you got dumped by a chick that drove a F250 once so you hate them? Which is it?
Wait........I know........you’re not ready to admit that you’re jealous of OUR trucks because the little utes you call 1 tonnes couldn’t pull a sick kangaroo off a pile of kiwi!!
Hahahahahaa

[gmw_photos]

The poster that said: "rebadged Nissan Navara", this is correct. There is an interview with some manufacturer reps on the web that explains the relationship between Nissan and MB on this project.

To Robert Ryan, hey man, I enjoy your posts and seeing pics from down-under, but you are incorrect when you say the new design Navara ( Frontier to us ) is different in size to the "old style" ( 2005 to current ) Frontier.

I have and still drive a 2006 Frontier. I just went to the garage and got out my sales brochure from 2006 and compared the dimensions and specs to a "new" Australia spec Navara. All dimensions are within an inch. In some cases my old version is actually slightly larger than the new.

They are basically the same vehicle, with different powertrains (y'all get stuck with slow-azz small diesels, we get gas motors ) and different sheetmetal.

To the guy that said the rear overhang is too long for good towing, he obviously has not towed with one. I've towed over 50K miles ( my 19' TT or my horse trailer ) behind my Frontier, and it does very well indeed.

Back on topic, I suspect the new MB version will be a niche market product. They'll sell a few, just like Ford sells "a few" of the Lincoln badged F150's. There are always a few folks willing to pay extra for something a bit more unique and expensive.

[soren]

RobertRyan wrote:

Dayle1 wrote:

RobertRyan wrote:

If the US manufacturers want to sell Globally( Hedge against a downturn, excess vehicles in stock) They would have too see what Pickups if any can be sold directly from the factory too overseas locations, without much modification. Japanese do this rather well

Your "if" is totally incorrect. US manufacturers don't need to sell trucks in Australia. In the NA market, trucks generate the most profit $$. Other truck markets are too small with extra costs that would have a negative impact on profits. US manufacturers are looking for a larger share of large markets (like China) and the type of vehicles that those markets want, which isn't HD trucks. You said it yourself, Australia is a very diverse market that is also small. It isn't a key part of their strategy which is maintaining their strength in the NA truck market while trying their best to compete in large emerging car markets.

No if the market stalls, then a reserve or new market is required. Nissan is or was going to too do it with their Titan XD. they were looking at Russia, Australia, Mid East as potential markets

Nissan’s global boss of commercial vehicles, Ashwani Gupta, says the company is looking at producing the Titan full-size pickup truck for markets outside of North America, including right-hand drive (RHD) countries such as Australia.

Sales of Nissan’s Ford F-Series rival are up more than 200 per cent this year, with more than 40,000 units sold. Some of these buyers are apparently pinched from the Ford, or other rivals such as the Ram 1500/2500, Chevrolet Silverado and Toyota Tundra, but some are also existing Nissan SUV owners or those upsizing from the Navara.

You do realize that even though the Titan's 40K would be a GIANT number for Australia, it is less than HALF of the number of F-150 sold LAST MONTH, in the states. Since you provide helpful info. about your country, let's take a minute to learn about mine. Nissan USA is somewhere between a bit player, and a non-event here. I would bet that a significant percentage of our citizens are unaware that Nissan even produces a full sized pickup, even though they have been flailing at the attempt for fifteen years now. Spreading 40K units over this vast country amounts to 800 per state. Which puts them in Unicorn territory. I live in a densely populated area. I can drive for days and never pass a Titan. I also have never seen one used for any commercial purpose, other than the occasional one pulling a small trailer with a lawn mower, that may or may not be owned by a very small time landscape contractor. Here Nissan is Know for less than great cars, CTVs that continually fail, and finding financing for customers that can barely fog a mirror. Believe me, if Nissan decides to build RHD Titans for the Australian market, don't get too excited. It's a third class product that will make Aussie buyers long for the Fords they no longer have access to.

[soren]

Seems to be serious case of "little man" syndrome, coupled with an utter lack of comprehension of how global economics works.

It's a bit disappointing actually. If Mr Ryan had the self discipline required to provide his excellent pics. (even if they are cut and paste) and interesting commentary on how RVs, trucks, and SUVs are utilized in Australia, while resisting the urge to act like a toddler, kicking ankles in a room full of adults, it would actually make for a good read.

The American Market is a place where Ford can't build their largest SUV fast enough to meet demand, sells them for $80k, and makes margins that are the envy of the global marketplace. All domestic manufacturers are producing high volumes of large pickups that are selling at prices never dreamed of a few short years ago, with average retail up $15K USD and more, recently.

The Australian market is a place where domestic passenger manufacturing is no longer a viable option. Ford, Toyota, and GM have all abandoned their production facilities there. The silliness of claiming that any global manufacturer is incapable of success, marketing large pickups in Australia, since they are not "tough enough" is ludicrous. It's all about making the right decisions in the global marketplace. When your North American operations are making record margins on hundreds of thousands of pickups a year, closing car plants and dropping product to make room for MORE production capacity for SUVs and pickups, there is no reason to plague your global enterprise by trying to sell a few thousand vehicles in a country that is so insignificant that it no longer capable of sustaining it's once thriving domestic manufacturing. Doing so is the kind of thing that gets regional directors fired for making poor decisions.

Bottom line, Mr Ryan? You can be a valuable contributor here, but it's time to drop the BS. Vehicles arrive in your country in cases where they can be produced on a global platform and are profitably marketed in countless countries. They are nothing special, and found all over the world. Claiming that they are tough, desirable, or "special" since some global enterprise feels that they can make a profit, loading them on a boat, destined for Australia, is some pretty delusional stuff.

[RobertRyan]

Dayle1 wrote:

RobertRyan wrote:

If the US manufacturers want to sell Globally( Hedge against a downturn, excess vehicles in stock) They would have too see what Pickups if any can be sold directly from the factory too overseas locations, without much modification. Japanese do this rather well

Your "if" is totally incorrect. US manufacturers don't need to sell trucks in Australia. In the NA market, trucks generate the most profit $$. Other truck markets are too small with extra costs that would have a negative impact on profits. US manufacturers are looking for a larger share of large markets (like China) and the type of vehicles that those markets want, which isn't HD trucks. You said it yourself, Australia is a very diverse market that is also small. It isn't a key part of their strategy which is maintaining their strength in the NA truck market while trying their best to compete in large emerging car markets.

No if the market stalls, then a reserve or new market is required. Nissan is or was going to too do it with their Titan XD. they were looking at Russia, Australia, Mid East as potential markets

Nissan’s global boss of commercial vehicles, Ashwani Gupta, says the company is looking at producing the Titan full-size pickup truck for markets outside of North America, including right-hand drive (RHD) countries such as Australia.

Sales of Nissan’s Ford F-Series rival are up more than 200 per cent this year, with more than 40,000 units sold. Some of these buyers are apparently pinched from the Ford, or other rivals such as the Ram 1500/2500, Chevrolet Silverado and Toyota Tundra, but some are also existing Nissan SUV owners or those upsizing from the Navara.

[Dayle1]

RobertRyan wrote:

If the US manufacturers want to sell Globally( Hedge against a downturn, excess vehicles in stock) They would have too see what Pickups if any can be sold directly from the factory too overseas locations, without much modification. Japanese do this rather well

Your "if" is totally incorrect. US manufacturers don't need to sell trucks in Australia. In the NA market, trucks generate the most profit $$. Other truck markets are too small with extra costs that would have a negative impact on profits. US manufacturers are looking for a larger share of large markets (like China) and the type of vehicles that those markets want, which isn't HD trucks. You said it yourself, Australia is a very diverse market that is also small. It isn't a key part of their strategy which is maintaining their strength in the NA truck market while trying their best to compete in large emerging car markets.

[RobertRyan]

Bedlam wrote:

RobertRyan wrote:

Bedlam wrote:
Conditions in Australia don't require the capabilities of a heavy duty pickup, so there is no market for them?

No they used to sell them here from showrooms. Question you could ask why b others outside NA have not acquired them?

I will stand by my claim, even though your view is short sighted. Conditions may be environmental, economic, political, ...

As far as boutique markets, Australia would fit that category. Small market with high price for delivery. I would venture it’s hard to justify a dedicated manufacturing plant there for the local demand verses the cost which also limits you in choices.

Whole heap of reason whyUS Pickups do not sell. Manufacturers need to turn that around, like the Japanese, Koreans and Europeans have done..
Manufacturing of cars was killed by a unfavourable exchange rate in Australia, changing tastes from cars too Pickups/SUV’s and the US manufacturers refusal too allow exports of cars. Toyota had too stop as well as the supply chain folded when the others stopped.. Now it is the manufacturer of Heavy Trucks, Boats, Military vehicles, parts for planes and RV’s
General Automotive market is more diverse than even the US one. , seemingly a record for sales set every month.

[SoundGuy]

RobertRyan wrote:
@ Soundguy
I have seen US Pickups disappear from Australia. You do not like the fact, but that is your problem not mine

Your presumption is erroneous - I could care less whether "US Pickups" as you call them have "disappeared" from Australia. :R YOU yourself started this thread by talking about a new mid-size Mercedes introduced to the Australian market and I merely offered the opinion based on my own personal observation having been in Australia numerous times that vehicles like this are very popular for those Aussies living in populated areas along the coast if for no other reason than larger full size trucks such as my North American 1/2 ton Silverado are simply too big for roadways, parking lots, mall lots, etc ... heck, my Silvy wouldn't even fit my BIL's driveway! You then morphed this discussion about mid-size vehicles into mocking the US off road scene, comparing it to what you deem to be acceptable for Australian off roading, which has absolutely nothing to do with what you yourself started out talking about. :S

RobertRyan wrote:
Want be to be critical argue on facts and leave sarcastic remarks behind

Apparently you're not paying attention - you still need to work on sentence structure and grammar if you want to effectively argue your case and have others understand what the heck you're talking about. :W

[RobertRyan]

Dayle1 wrote:
OZ is a small market and even a big presence would not save a US company if the US market declined. Japanese and other global builders are already forced to design and build units for opposite steering, so the OZ market is an ez addition. Personally I think US hd trucks could work fine there but the volume is too small to justify design, building and shipping them down under along with sales support. Truth is none of this really matters.

In the Japanese case not much of stretch , as their Japanese sourced vehicles are RHD anyway.
F250-F350’s from 2003-2007 were RHD from the factory , sold by Ford.Australia So no outrageous prices.
Still they made barely an impact and were dropped.. They struggled for a myriad of reasons..
If the US manufacturers want to sell Globally( Hedge against a downturn, excess vehicles in stock) They would have too see what Pickups if any can be sold directly from the factory too overseas locations, without much modification. Japanese do this rather well

[Bedlam]

RobertRyan wrote:

Bedlam wrote:
Conditions in Australia don't require the capabilities of a heavy duty pickup, so there is no market for them?

No they used to sell them here from showrooms. Question you could ask why b others outside NA have not acquired them?

I will stand by my claim, even though your view is short sighted. Conditions may be environmental, economic, political, ...

As far as boutique markets, Australia would fit that category. Small market with high price for delivery. I would venture it’s hard to justify a dedicated manufacturing plant there for the local demand verses the cost which also limits you in choices.